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Russia-US: It’s the world order, stupid!

Published: 28 September, 2009, 21:32

This past week the presidents of Russia and the United States made earnest attempts to bolster a bilateral relationship that has been in tatters for at least the past eight years. The administration of Barack Obama scrapped Bush-era anti-missile plans in Eastern Europe and Dmitry Medvedev made it clear that Russia remains flexible when dealing with Iran's controversial nuclear program. Is there...

Comments (11):

Aleksandar Hranov, September 28, 2009, 22:47 quote
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“Iran claims it is not in pursuit of a nuclear weapon.” But what if it was..and officially too? I have a question, obviously I’m missing something: Can somebody pls explain to me why is one fairly small state, Israel, allowed to have nuclear weapons and another fairly big one, Iran, not? I mean after all isn’t Iran at least the size (both in terms of population and territory) of France or the UK?..and they’re both nuclear powers and nobody seems to have a problem with that. Pakistan too seems to be a well accepted nuclear power.. without being an overgrown titan like say the US, Russia, China or India.. . BR Aleks
R John, September 29, 2009, 11:20 quote
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Peter has covered many different points I want to address just one for now. Is Iran a serious threat? Maybe I am missing something but I don’t believe Iran posses a major threat. The Iranian government has invited inspectors into this second plant, a plant that has been known about for a long time and its enrichment capability was always part of the calulations.It is very easy to prove if Iran is enriching for nuclear power or for a nuclear bomb, power is 4 to 7% enrichment, a bomb is over 90% and because Iran has invited inspectors in I doubt they have much to hide. Plus the fact that a large percentage of the Iranian public are very concerned over relations with the west and do not want any confrontation. I believe diplomacy is the order of the day.Santions now would be counter-productive. Part of this diplomacy must take on board Iran’s concerns. The fact that the neighbouring state of Israel has an arsenal of over 200 nuclear warheads enough not only to destroy Iran but much of the Arab world. Looking at recent history I find Israel to be far more aggressive and disproportionate in its actions. The attack on the west bank was brutal over the top and shameful even their allies could not rein them in. And the deliberate destruction of Lebanon’s infrastructure was merciless and barbaric. I believe Israel is a state almost out of control the US gave them a feeling of invincibility and they in my opinion pose the greatest threat to stability in the region. America has created a monster and its time they dealt with it. The nuclear disarmament of Israel should be included in negotiations with Iran and the wider Middle East. How can you complain about Iran having nuclear potential when Israel has more warheads than the UK a permanent Security Council member. The word hypocritical springs to mind.
007, September 29, 2009, 15:24 quote
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@ Aleksandar Hranov Good question, here’s my money theory… the real news ;) Firstly what you need to do is research what a “global reserve currency” actually means. A global reserve currency is a “free lunch”, so all countries want one, it does have this nasty side effect of destroying the host nations industry, but that’s another story. Here’s an example… I live in a country on “Local” currency, and I need petrol for my car. To get that petrol the “Local” currency has to be turned into “Dollars”, because that’s what the Arabs want. The oil itself is not that important, it’s that currency exchange. Just because I bought petrol, the FED bank of the USA, now has my “Local” currency, and all they had to do is run a Dollar press, they export “paper”. So now the FED can come back to my country and buy our gold… just because I bought petrol. A global reserve currency is more powerful than all the armies in the world… you need to understand that. A global currency is pretty neat, but it’s also the reason the world fails, it should not belong to any country, a long story. This is why the USA has been fighting wars all over the world, because the FED (which is not American) uses them to protect that global currency. Now ask yourself what happens when the Arab countries decide to sell oil on the Euro! Yes, chaos breaks out. Iraq moved to the Euro… and the USA took them out… and now you can guess what the problem with Iran is… it’s on the Euro ;) But its more complex, because the Israeli banking lobby in the USA is very powerful, many people think that Israeli’s own the international banking system, not surprising if you look at the people that run the USA. Personally I think that European royalty pulls all the strings, but Israel can be thought of as the banker nation of the world, which explains why a tiny country is so incredibly powerful. Now Bush was an idiot, without realizing it, he sold the Dollar, because while he rushed off to “fight terrorism”, these bankers were sabotaging the Dollar and installing the Euro. When Tony Blair and Brown, tried to put Iraq on the Euro, only then did the USA wake up… this is why USA relations with Britain (Euro Spies) and Obama Israel relations are now strained. Now because Russia and China are flipping sleeping, and have not got together with Obama and said, lets all make a new global currency and outsmart these bankers, Obama is oscillating between depending on the bankers that screwed the USA, and battling the crooked bankers… he is stuck in a hard place. The news talks in euphemisms, some may call it complete lies, but this “nuclear negotiation”, actually means… Dollar Euro war. Why the “banker owned” news stations are lying is because these bankers did a lousy job of killing the USA, it’s still very much alive, and if China, Russia and the USA now join forces, these bankers are in trouble. The politicians are all paid by the bankers and they too blind to see who the enemy really is, and too weak to realize that if the BRICs and the USA, make a new banking system and a new world currency, we will have a brand new and very cool world, that works! So, we all die while these morons now fight a currency war, “staged” by the bankers, which will kill us all, and leave these crooked bankers in power of evil earth. Our politicians don’t seem to realize that money is just paper… until now that is, when Obama has basically said, hey, maybe Russia and China is not the enemy. Now we will see if they smart enough to realize that once they get these crooked bankers out the way, they don’t want the global currency, they have to make the *whole* world spin. The real problem is most of our “leaders” are banking puppets, and “democracy” itself is a colossal lie. Understand that this currency war is not winnable, when the USA fails, it’s WWIII, and then the crooked bankers win. See why I’m yelling at our “leaders”. Too much to try explain so briefly… but when you watch CNN, know that they lying through their teeth. Middle East negotiations on “settlements” actually means, have you bankers made up your mind yet, do you love the USA, or do you love money. Its complex, but I think there is only one way to save earth and humanity, these bankers have to go, and Russia, China and the USA have to wake up fast! Do not fight the Euro Dollar war… get together and make a new system, fast! Our world clearly has some good men out there, but what they need to understand is that they cannot win, unless they take the global currency away from these crooked bankers… and that the “USA plus BRIC”, is all the consensus they actually need. To me its as obvious as daylight, we about to build heaven or hell and there is no in-between, good men have to fight, and now the truth is more important than ever before… we have to take the virus out of capitalism, and then make earth spin. But remember… this is just my view of the world. Peter Lavelle is leading the sheep to water, and letting us see our reflection… and our “civilization” is not a pretty sight… to me we look like banking thieves with our hands now stuck in an empty cookie jar. We are all stuck in a system, it’s fixable, but after all the damage that has been done, will our leaders have the strength of mind to do the right thing… this is the question? Just as a footnote, anti-Semitism is raging on the Internet, and they wrong, there are Jews on all sides of this equation, a Jew bust the world bank scam wide open, American Jews don’t want to see the USA murdered, so that is not the war. The bankers that are trying to make this an America versus Russia thing… are the real enemy. Also Israel must not be seen as the “bankers”, because if this goes wrong, the bankers will sacrifice it, there will be no Israel left if this goes pear shaped. You can see Israel as Dollar, and Iran as Euro… but in actual fact, the crooked bankers are playing both sides, and that’s what I’m trying to show you. Thank god for RT, it’s become the voice of sanity.
johnx, September 30, 2009, 02:40 quote
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I think it has more to do with Iran potentially being a major political power in the region using it's oil and gas reserves to become a major independent power in the region from Washington and creating a sphere of influence. Saudi Arabia and the other Arab states have as much a stake perhaps even more so of weakening Iran than does Israel It will be interesting to see what Iraq's stance on Iran would be given that it has a large Shite population like Iran and potential joint energy projects. The target is not Iran the target is Russia, China and Central Asia you only have to look at Obamas staff members and there history sand positions. The Georgian assault was the most direct yet of this 3 decades long policy to get Eurasian oil and gas to western markets under US control. While everyone has been distracted on the Iran issue they have been missing what is happening in Russia, China and Afghanistan and movements of these militants groups in Central Asia. Increased troop presence and NATO operations in Afghanistan make perfect sense in this regards to destabilise neighbouring regions not to make them more secure. Uzbekistan might to the most likely target for destabilisation.
Aleksandar Hranov, September 30, 2009, 21:21 quote
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Thank you 007! Now as Bogdanov has so well put it, all of us have some reason(s) to be on this. One of mine is education: I don’t want to go in the dark not knowing what hit me.. although this is the most probable outcome. How many of us, in the wider sence, will be spared this ‘most probable outcome?’ – not many I think. About “Just as a footnote, anti-Semitism is raging on the Internet, and they wrong, there are Jews on all sides of this equation” – don’t worry about this. I stopped being anti any group of people some years ago, and this I’m saying not just to cover my back. I believe it’s in fact fairly simple: we’re all equal, correct? (But to understand you actually have to Believe this, not just repeat it because it’s the politically correct phrase of the day.. .) This means we have the same capabilities.. and therefore in fact we’re the same. Further this means that if some of us are capable of something or did something, in fact we’re all capable of this something or did this something. If Nazis were capable of putting millions in concentration camps, we’re all capable of this too. It’s not ‘them’ who did it, It’s ‘us’ in fact who did it – ‘us’, the collective humanity, because we’re all the same, correct.. . We’re all responsible, so responsible in fact as if we did it with our own two hands. Same goes for the Soviet gulags, A-bombs dropped on Japan or Caesar butchering 20% of the population of Gaul.. .Same goes for all the positive things in this world: it’s not America that has already been to the moon, but it’s us people who have already been to the moon. That’s why I don’t find any sense in pointing fingers or being proud of national heroes or national histories if you will. Make sense?.. Back on topic. Your explanation has shed a great deal of light on areas normally covered with darkness for me. Thanks again! I’ll go over it and try to filter out only more important questions/comments I have: “if China, Russia and the USA now join forces” – I can’t see this happening: Russia maybe, due to nation’s mentality, I think even after all they’ve had to go through because of the Anglo-American world, they could be persuaded to join forces with the US. But China, I think not. Also, they’re (the Chinese) the ones now that have the very real posibility to be the next ‘’master’’ of the world: therefore, why agree to share power with the losers (the US never did while on top)? And why should their goal be an international reserve currency, when the yuan as a global reserve currency will be much more advantageus to China, as you have pointed out? I mean, who doesn’t like free lunches?.. Also, for Iran, if it is simply because of the Euro its survival has become questionable, why don’t they simply move to the dollar?.. Why didn’t Sadam?.. Is it so difficult? Also, if Iran is fighting for the Euro, I would expect the EU to be a bit more supportive of Iran, as they’re helping their “free lunch.” “Understand that this currency war is not winnable, when the USA fails, it’s WWIII, and then the crooked bankers win.” How can you win when you’re dead? (this in accordance with modern western world’s logics) I also want to ask you: in your opinion, and following the money, why are the US and UK in Afganistan and former Yugoslavia (I think mainly of Kosovo now)? Is it still the Euro vs Dollar war or there’s more to it? If I didn’t know better I’d say top US and UK strategists are probably archaeology freaks: I mean think: Afganistan – incredably old civilization. Irak – oldest civilization officially accepted. Balkans – oldest civilization in Europe and if “Vinca civilization” wasn’t so carefully ignored in fact older than Sumer. Iran – need I mention.. . If I’m to follow this line of thought I’d expect the next to be Tibet, Northern India, Egypt, Ethiopia, Central and parts of South America (like Peru, Bolivia..). BR, Aleks
Alfredo, September 30, 2009, 23:42 quote
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the way out is a new world police. Moscow and Washington can make this police. them condemn all nuclear weapons worldwide, they can do it by diplomacy or force and nobody will fight Russia and Moscow. beginning with Israel, Pakistan, India, north Korea France the UK. them china the USA and Moscow will disarm unilaterally synchronize and at least there will never be a nuclear war however other wars will still exist. but civilize ones.
007, October 01, 2009, 12:08 quote
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@ johnx Absolutely agree… Asia has become a treasure chest, whoever controls it, controls the world currency, and the world economy. Russia and the USA are the keys to the treasure chest. But I believe the energy that is driving this crazy world, is that some crooked bankers have totally mismanaged the Dollar, and are now the trying to liquidate the USA, and install the Euro, using those secretive gangster like organizations, the FED, Bank of England, and ECB, which work “above” governments. I think it would be so much easier if these “terrorists” wore Dollar and Euro T shirts, so we could tell which side they on. I believe that even if the Euro beats the Dollar, the world still wont work, so I think these bankers are up to some really horrific stuff. This has happened once before, the bankers put all the banks in a safe neutral location, Switzerland, and then created a terrible Hollywood movie to change the global currency, we called it WWII. War is always a lie. I think these bankers must be really upset that the USA, China, India and Russia, have not fallen for it, because my chessboard tells me that this can only work if those countries turn on each other. At first it’s hard to believe, but it’s the only model that I can think of that fits, these bankers are pure evil, and not very bright, replaying WWII is not clever. The USA and the BRICs must stick together like glue, and create a new clean financial system and global currency as fast as possible. We RESET like that, or we RESET with a WWII replay, is there a choice. Our backhanding puppet leaders seem to be taking us the wrong way. @ Alfredo I couldn’t agree more, if good men put together an archangel organization that took evil bankers out, we would never have war. This is actually what the freemasons was supposed to be about, but they also as crooked as hell. I am so impressed with Putin, he is a real leader, and I think if it wasn’t for the combination of Obama, Jintao and Putin the nukes would already be in the sky. I say, don’t let these bankers get away with it, and don’t let them do it to the world again. The right war is… us against the bankers.
Bogdanov, October 01, 2009, 14:37 quote
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So many people (at least, here, in the States) have been caught by surprise by the sharp turns made (or being made) by Obama in many areas of American life. At least, on words (this is not bad start for the change, anyway. At least, it is coherent with the Bible -- "In the beginning there was a Word". Or something like that.). Including the US-Russia relationships. Two countries have seen ups and downs in their relationships in the past. But, what is going on now is different for several reasons (as I see it). Even though I am not very optimistic about very good relationships between them even in the future. 1. America accumulated a pile of political and social problems for many years. Apart from the outdated political System based on the world of 300 years ago which doesn't fit very well in the modern very dynamic and connected world, for the last 20 years it is loosing one of its very significant element -- the unity. Up until today the country's integrity was based on the notion of the external mighty enemy (Evil), which the US has to combat (to be free), and religious principles of lifestyle (basically, dictated by mono-religion -- evangelist church). Both of these elements are slowly dissipating as the world is getting more and more integrated (multicultural) and education becomes a mandatory element of life (big rip for any religion). So the integrity of the country -- it is weakening. Some Americans are still trying to encourage themselves that this is the best of the best place on earth and current downturn is something temporary and everything will be returned to where it was before. But, is sounds less and less convincing these days even for the preachers themselves. While I believe that America will be fine and it is, using many measures, still one of the best places on earth, unlike many Americans, I don't think that America is coming back to the state which it was before. 40-50 years from now, it will be different country populated with different people. Possibly, having different culture. In fact, what is more convincing is what Obama is advocating -- America is a part of the world and not something above it. The time has come to adjust this System to the new reality. From that perspective, it doesn't seem, that it was completely accidental (thought it was in many ways) that almost unknown Obama ended up in the White House. 2. New generation of politicians came (or coming) to power in both the US and Russia. And this generation doesn't have such antagonistic attitudes toward each other like their fathers had. I am part of this generation and I am talking about many Russians I grew up with. And I see how young Americans (X and Y generations, who brought Obama to power) are much more tolerant to the racial and national differences and more transparent to country boundaries. Though, at this stage, still there is a big crowd of political dinosaurs from the past staying (and will stay for some time) behind the back of this new generation of the world leaders. 3. Obama is the first American president (at least, for the last 100 years) who doesn't have the anti-Russian virus in his blood vessels. Even more than that. I would expect that deep inside he is really sympathetic to Russians. And not only because he met his future wife (Michele) during Russian class in his University years. But, according to my observations, black culture in the US, in general, is more sympathetic to Russia and Socialist ideas are more welcome and better understood in their culture than among ruling white folk. Remember, when Obama visited Moscow? Most of the Western media was paying attention only on the fact that he was not met my Russians as a World Savior. (In fact, one of the reason why they were not so euphoric about this event, because, this is not something new for them -- Russia already had its "Obama" (Pushkin) 200 years ago, who is up to there days still one of the most admired figures in the Russian history). But, what I noticed, that Obama so liked being in Russia in the company of Medvedev and Putin, that he didn't want to leave (probably, several months being surrounded by neocons was quite enough for him). :-) By the way, I would suggest Obama to run for the Kremlin in 2012. I bet that there is a pretty good chance for him to win the hearts of Russians. Funny enough, but most of the Americans (especially older generation, mostly Republicans whom I spoke with) would love to see Putin running for the White House during next presidential election in the US. :-) 4. Both Obama and Medvedev are intellectuals. Both of them are well educated and have good brains which reflect the real life with all its complexity. I believe that neither of them look at the world with the simplistic views (black and white, good and evil), the qualities exhibited by most of the American presidents in the second half of the 20th century (culminated with R. Reagon and W.Bush being crown jewels of the political profanity). McCain would be one more. But, then, I believe, he would be the last president of the country used to be known as Mighty USA. I personally see, both Obama and Medvedev as the most progressive leaders of the modern era. Sadly, though, I think, they came little bit ahead of their time (may 10 years) and therefore not completely understood and accepted in the world politics. The World is not ready yet to accept them. Obama -- for being "too radical and Socialistic". And Medvedev -- due to usual arrogant, ignorant, and prejudiced attitude toward Russia and Russians. As Peter said, and I agree with this, that it is not clear how everything will be turned out -- it is not necessarily that the US and Russia may be good friends. Still there are and will be a lot of things to stumble over and compete for. But, one thing is for sure -- this is a new era in the politics and relationships between two countries. The era of generation X. I believe, for both Russia and the US there is no coming back to the old style of the Cold War. I still expect that there may be some steps back in the next 5-10 years. But, there is no way that the processes started in both countries can be stopped -- both the US and Russia move to the direction where Europe and Canada is today -- with better balanced public and private sectors and more strong system of the social support. Possibly, all of them, will be partially influenced by China, which in its turn, will be influenced by them. Anyway, if you ask me if I believe in paradise on earth, my answer will be -- no. This is how God designed this cruel Universe. To exist only through the struggle and perish forever through remarkable cataclysm. So, possibly, the interesting life expects us ahead. I do not expect, though, that the road will be covered with flowers.
johnx, October 02, 2009, 14:04 quote
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@Bogdanov Look at Obama’s staff members and advisors and there history especially Mr Brezinski. You should read his book The Grand Chessboard and his affiliations and activities of him/his family clan and associates like Gates and Khalizad. Everything that is happening right now mirrors what was outlined in The Grand Chessboard. Personally I think there setting up Obama as the fall guy blaming his "Marxist" policies for the worsening economic situation although like the USSR it is a global systematic economic failure hyping up the whole race issue so they can impose martial law.
GrizzlyBear-r-r, October 03, 2009, 05:23 quote
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Bogdanov, I think Obama leads the country to a disaster by his outrageous spending programs, ongoing wars and alienating middle class white Americans who are responding to his ruling by buying more guns and ammunition. His latest involvement into a racial motivated scandal in Massachusetts showed his true colors. I also think that he's a very weak person with no political identity, thus will be manipulated by old boys club of military and financial oligarchs My prediction is that his presidency will leave the country with two options: 1. Dictatorship that would be the only way to preserve country's integrity 2. USSR-like country dismemberment We will see all that in no more than eight years from now. The good thing is that after all that happens, nobody will care about Iran any more and Israel will not be considered as unconditional American's friend and multi-billion dollar donation recipient. The bad thing - USA and world's instability if the country will go with option #2.
Bogdanov, October 03, 2009, 17:10 quote
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johnx. I tend to align with you on this. Though, I think, the situation a little bit more complicated. Obama is not only product of the neocon's tycoons, but also a product of the American society of the current era. GrizzlyBear-r-r. I totally agree with you on the possibility of those two options you provided about future direction of the USA. It may happen, if the country would start "jerking around". And it will. I would add, though, that there are more options, which have certain conditions to be implemented. For example -- the peaceful transformation to a truly mixed race and multi-national society. This process is going on, by the way, already for several decades. The most important thing here -- it requires time and patience. Or, being "brutally honest" -- the old (Cold War era) generation should die out and the new generations (X and Y) should completely dominate in this society. Like in that Biblical story of Moses and his people whom he kept for 40 years in the desert to "replace" them with the new generation which doesn't know what is it to be slaves. So, this way, I would put a very simple goal for American politicians -- any possible way to create conditions which would allow to avoid the civil war within next 30 years. After that the country's transformation will be complete and it will be fine. Because, what Americans need to understand is that problems are in their heads and not somewhere in the air, outside of them. They look at the presentation of those problems and not at their roots. They thought that W.Bush created the problems. But, now he is gone, but the problems still remain. Now they forgot about Bush and start blaming Obama for all those problems they have. And so on and on. But, is it possible, that those problems originated in the organization of the society itself or those rules which govern this country? How about that gap which is widening between current and actual state of the American society and those basic documents which establish the rules of living? What if the problems exist because people stopped being responsible for themselves and their country? What if the lack of thinking and perception of the surrounding world and ignorance to the political processes in this country is a source of the problems? But, every time when Michael Moore comes with his new documentary and start bringing those questions and digging for answers it creates a storm which move the nasty things in the air. And it smells bad... I wrote already many times -- democracy and freedom are not for free. You have to work hard to have them... Many Americans afraid certain things and they like ostriches put their heads in the sand. And wait until the problems either magically go away by themselves or somebody else will come to resolve them. They afraid crisis. But, crisis are good. They are healing. They force people to think, act, and being organized. For example I see this fear of the Socialism exhibited by many whom I know. But, why? Sadly, they don't even know what it is about and not willing to know. What they know is that Capitalism it is something what produces goods and the Socialism -- what consumes those goods. This is why the Socialism is evil. So, it requires personal work to learn about it (even better -- to experience it) and then actively either dismiss it forever or accept it. Otherwise it will be exactly what I see in the States today -- on words Americans are "by all their hearts" against the Socialism, but, on practice, they want more and more this Socialism. Without even being aware of it. And one more thing. Americans afraid of strong government. But, they do not aware that this is exactly the reason -- strong government -- what makes this country being a Superpower and provides stable living environment. I, personally, much more afraid of weak government. I experienced personally in the end of 80s what is it to live in the country without government (or dysfunctional government). A weak government -- a perfect conditions for creating local gangs, mafias, shooting and killing on the streets. A county with the weak government is a county for gangsters. This is a world of humans. If they are not restrained, some of them will start behave like animals.
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