Are international critics of Russia's claim on the Arctic merely jealous?, page 2


Sevodnya_Net 29 May, 2008, 08:52	Yes we all had a good laugh at the Titanic stunt a few months ago, but personally I don't begrudge the Russian people a bit of fun: once all the patriotic hoo-ha died down (and with elections safely won :-) ) a much more pragmatic assessment of the situation is being made, as was always going to be the case. Russia has a right to a share of the Arctic resources, a share is all it's going to be, and a share is all that's being claimed. So we can all calm down again (!) permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
Californian 14 June, 2008, 07:33	You guys want the truth about the Arctic? It's going to be first come, first serve. Yes it's unfair, tough. Halliburton's invasion of Iraq was unfair too. Russia has a lot of oil in Russia and a lot of oil in the Arctic. So it'd be intelligent of them to drill the oil from the Arctic first, where it's disputed. If the US and UK want to protest, well their own oil companies are far from angellic. The intelligent thing for the UN to do would be to give part of the Arctic to Russia (becuase they'll take it anyways) part to other countries surrounding it, and make the center shared by the UN. And what's the rest of the World going to do? When Russia de-facto made Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia part of Russia by giving everyone there a Russian passport, the response was "umm, uhh, geez they are powerful, umm, uhh, hey look let's report on that water-skiing squirrel!" The Arctic is disputed, which translates into first come first serve. And Russians have the tech. People like me in the US have been telling Dubya and his Neocon gang, "research better tech" but he invades Iraq. Well that's what happens, and what will keep on happening unless NATO drastically alters its policies from pro-bullying to pro-research. Today Russia and China stand up to it, tomorrow it will be India, and so on; why does it take some people so long to get the message and stop "liberating" people by dropping bombs on their head and "borrowing" their natural resources. permalink quote 0 Californian
interesting 6 July, 2008, 07:27	Interesting The area has been and is Canadian not russian and now US. The people who live there are Canadian voting and electing people to parliment for years and years and years . Canada seems to have been in the region for many many years without any US or Russian or any other countries involvement . I was there back in the 60's and now Russia and USA are argueing here about which of them owns it permalink quote 0 interesting
Sam 6 July, 2008, 17:17	Sorry Interesting,Neither The RF or USA wants Canada or any of its territory.The Arctic is massive,all surrounding countries have lands arround it(mostly Russia and Canada) It has nothing to do with those islands what so ever. We are talking about the Arctic sea here. There is an international law in place(not too clear on it,maybe someone would like to explain)Which allows a country to claim exclusive mining rights if it is shown that the sea floor is an extension of their continental shelf. That is what it is all about. permalink quote 0 Sam
Californian 7 July, 2008, 01:08	Interesting - have you looked at a map lately? Are you going to tell me that Alaska is Canadian? Or that Novaya Zemlya is really a part of Prince Edward Island? I was not aware that Alaskans and Novaya Zemlya inhabitants voted for the Canadian Parliament. I will update my political entry right away! And Murmansk, why did those damn commies steal it from Canada! Any relation you have to Candon, the Canadian "hockey fan" who first replies to other people's posts and then gets them banned? permalink quote 0 Californian
Ambassador 13 July, 2008, 23:20	I do not believe so, but I can say that the nation state of Scotland has an equal claim as Denmark. In this globalised world it is important to work collectively with all the nations that have a claim to the Arctic Oil. Aconsidered approach would be a United Nations revised Treaty for all the respective parties that want to commercialise the North Pole and Arctic Oil reserves. permalink quote 0 Ambassador
Henry (nene) 21 July, 2008, 00:45	Put it this way, Canada is more closer to the Artic region regard's it's marking, however Russia should like any other country and small Islands which the markings passes through should benefit from Oil in the Artic region, but it is not good enough for one country as I understant it to lay whole of huge claim to the Artic like Russia is potsioning it self? the Canadains have much claim to the Artic than any country do! but it is important for all party interested to exrecise a high level of diplomacy than rhetorical views which does not serve any useful popose it about time we as people stop creating a condition these insatible appetite to control or dominate at all cost to the detriment of others. permalink quote 0 Henry (nene)
Enrique 22 July, 2008, 05:33	Even if just in the limits of the Artic, I just want to make a comment about the Primorsky Krai city of Vladivostok. Vladivostok is the right port for Exports and Imports to the Heilongjiang (Harbin) Region of China. We are talking about a region of almost 40 million people which doesn´t have a direct access to the Pacific. Now is the time for Vladivostok to become the Port of Heilongjiang as North Korea is still closed to foreign investment.once North Korea is open that possibility will be lost and Vladivostok would lose an impressive Market. So I wonder if Russian and Chinese Authorities, now that they have reached an agreement about international borders, cannot undertake the necessary investment (rail and road) and international agreement to undertake the full connection between Vladivostok and Harbin industrial companies. Vladivostok will be the main point of entry for Exports and Imports directed not just to the Russian Far East but also to Heilongjiang. permalink quote 0 Enrique
Enrique 22 July, 2008, 23:35	It is clearly possible a new highway connecting directly Harbin and Vladivostok saving about 200 Kms. as the present rail and highway goes too far North towards Ussurysk. At the same time, as much important is the fact that two Prefectures (Jixi and Jiamusi) don´t have a direct connection to the Pacific and have to go too, too far away to reach the present road and railway, so a new road and railway connecting directly these Prefectures to Vladivostok would allow their companies to find a shorter and much more economic way to the Pacific exports to Japan and the World. More important now that the price of transport is increasing. permalink quote 0 Enrique
Californian 25 July, 2008, 09:03	Ok, first off, claiming that one country is closer to the Artic then another is plain silly. It's like claiming that China is closer to Russia then Finland! There are a lot of countries, (even Denmark) that border the Artic, and in an ideal World the Artic would be shared. However Russia, under Putin, has been developing its Arctic Technology, while NATO countries were not. The result is in your hands. If you put your money into NATO instead of Civillian Research and Development, Russia gets Arctic Oil and you get fucked. Welcome to the real World kids. And Canadians, stop whining already. You should've picked a better gov't. then Harper and the fact that you picked Harper, cannot possibly be Putin's fault. permalink quote 0 Californian
Enrique 28 July, 2008, 08:13	Even if the capital of Russia is transferred to Krasnoyarsk, Moscow will continue thriving like Shangai, New York, Los Angeles or Milano, none of them capital of their nation. Private Corporations will keep their headquarters in Moscow and also some of the public corporations. But Krasnoyarsk would make the next Presidents of Russia to have a different vision of the World being closer not just to Vladivostok, Irkutsk or Kanthy-Mansiysk but also to China and Kazakhstan. At the same time that move will drive almost 2 million Russians and Ukrainians East reversing the Siberian trend of abandoning the Far East. Part of them will arrive at Vladivostok which is a city of the future, and that will make less important the need for Chinese immigrants. Of course, it is a risk as Moscow is a thriving city in the heart of European Russia, close to St. Petersbourg, Sochi, Athens, Berlin, Helsinki or even Rome so a next Russians Presidents will have to travel more hours to meet their European counterparts even if lees hours to meet their Asian (China, Korea, Japan) counterparts. permalink quote 0 Enrique
Enrique 30 July, 2008, 09:30	Russia doesn´t need to build a new city but just to adapt the present city of Krasnoyarsk to become the nation´s Capital as its location is excellent: 1. Add a new Terminal to the Yemelyanovo Airport so it can work as a hub between Europe and the Asian Far East. 2. Refurbish the Railway Station. If Spain has already a high speed train (AVE) from Barcelona to Seville (over 1,000 Kms.) then Russia can have a high speed train from Moscow to Krasnoyarsk (4,000 Kms.) by the year 2028. 3. Build new Avenues, including new Shopping Centers, and adapt the present ones for the Ministry Buildings and thousands of employees. 4. Improved Superhighway from Moscow to Krasnoyarsk as the global warming means roads will be open during a longer period of the year. Well, I think urban experts would have much better ideas to adapt the city of Krasnoyarsk to become a new wonderful capital of Russia. permalink quote 0 Enrique
Enrique 31 July, 2008, 07:44	The only problem for Krasnoyarsk is that the Zheleznogorsk nuclear complex is so close to the city. permalink quote 0 Enrique
K 9 August, 2008, 17:12	I permalink quote 0 K
canobs 6 December, 2011, 05:26	Mourmansk and Vladivostok would become the most important ports for Russia, US have access with Alaska and Canada, as the actual Harper government is their puppet.____In the meantime we have the Economic crisis to solve first, GoldmanSachs succeeding in destroying the European Economy (starting with Greece) and the Euro currency, Germany tried to help as 20% of its banking is public but not enough to last for very long. Even China is now in trouble holding too much of US debt now bankrupt (and not wanting to admit it)______Ahamadinejad once said at the UN---The USA printed in the last 30 years for 29,000 billions of dollars in treasury bonds and currency, without any backing (gold or resource). With this fake money, they took control of the resources of the entire world, being the most important scam (steal or robbery) in world history._______ONLY WAY to solve this crisis, apply the theories of the Economist Clifford Hugh Douglas (social credit with public banks) apply the Tobin tax on market transactions to stop lobbeying and speculation legalized fraud, prohibit fiscal heavens and hedge funds, and limit the salaries bonuses and commissions of managers traders brokers to reasonable levels having them to pay their share of taxes. permalink quote 0 canobs

Sevodnya_Net 29 May, 2008, 08:52

Yes we all had a good laugh at the Titanic stunt a few months ago, but personally I don't begrudge the Russian people a bit of fun: once all the patriotic hoo-ha died down (and with elections safely won :-) ) a much more pragmatic assessment of the situation is being made, as was always going to be the case. Russia has a right to a share of the Arctic resources, a share is all it's going to be, and a share is all that's being claimed. So we can all calm down again (!)

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

Californian 14 June, 2008, 07:33

You guys want the truth about the Arctic? It's going to be first come, first serve. Yes it's unfair, tough. Halliburton's invasion of Iraq was unfair too. Russia has a lot of oil in Russia and a lot of oil in the Arctic. So it'd be intelligent of them to drill the oil from the Arctic first, where it's disputed. If the US and UK want to protest, well their own oil companies are far from angellic. The intelligent thing for the UN to do would be to give part of the Arctic to Russia (becuase they'll take it anyways) part to other countries surrounding it, and make the center shared by the UN. And what's the rest of the World going to do? When Russia de-facto made Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia part of Russia by giving everyone there a Russian passport, the response was "umm, uhh, geez they are powerful, umm, uhh, hey look let's report on that water-skiing squirrel!" The Arctic is disputed, which translates into first come first serve. And Russians have the tech. People like me in the US have been telling Dubya and his Neocon gang, "research better tech" but he invades Iraq. Well that's what happens, and what will keep on happening unless NATO drastically alters its policies from pro-bullying to pro-research. Today Russia and China stand up to it, tomorrow it will be India, and so on; why does it take some people so long to get the message and stop "liberating" people by dropping bombs on their head and "borrowing" their natural resources.

permalink quote Californian

interesting 6 July, 2008, 07:27

Interesting The area has been and is Canadian not russian and now US. The people who live there are Canadian voting and electing people to parliment for years and years and years . Canada seems to have been in the region for many many years without any US or Russian or any other countries involvement . I was there back in the 60's and now Russia and USA are argueing here about which of them owns it

permalink quote interesting

Sam 6 July, 2008, 17:17

Sorry Interesting,Neither The RF or USA wants Canada or any of its territory.The Arctic is massive,all surrounding countries have lands arround it(mostly Russia and Canada) It has nothing to do with those islands what so ever. We are talking about the Arctic sea here. There is an international law in place(not too clear on it,maybe someone would like to explain)Which allows a country to claim exclusive mining rights if it is shown that the sea floor is an extension of their continental shelf. That is what it is all about.

permalink quote Sam

Californian 7 July, 2008, 01:08

Interesting - have you looked at a map lately? Are you going to tell me that Alaska is Canadian? Or that Novaya Zemlya is really a part of Prince Edward Island? I was not aware that Alaskans and Novaya Zemlya inhabitants voted for the Canadian Parliament. I will update my political entry right away! And Murmansk, why did those damn commies steal it from Canada! Any relation you have to Candon, the Canadian "hockey fan" who first replies to other people's posts and then gets them banned?

permalink quote Californian

Ambassador 13 July, 2008, 23:20

I do not believe so, but I can say that the nation state of Scotland has an equal claim as Denmark. In this globalised world it is important to work collectively with all the nations that have a claim to the Arctic Oil. Aconsidered approach would be a United Nations revised Treaty for all the respective parties that want to commercialise the North Pole and Arctic Oil reserves.

permalink quote Ambassador

Henry (nene) 21 July, 2008, 00:45

Put it this way, Canada is more closer to the Artic region regard's it's marking, however Russia should like any other country and small Islands which the markings passes through should benefit from Oil in the Artic region, but it is not good enough for one country as I understant it to lay whole of huge claim to the Artic like Russia is potsioning it self? the Canadains have much claim to the Artic than any country do! but it is important for all party interested to exrecise a high level of diplomacy than rhetorical views which does not serve any useful popose it about time we as people stop creating a condition these insatible appetite to control or dominate at all cost to the detriment of others.

permalink quote Henry (nene)

Enrique 22 July, 2008, 05:33

Even if just in the limits of the Artic, I just want to make a comment about the Primorsky Krai city of Vladivostok. Vladivostok is the right port for Exports and Imports to the Heilongjiang (Harbin) Region of China. We are talking about a region of almost 40 million people which doesn´t have a direct access to the Pacific. Now is the time for Vladivostok to become the Port of Heilongjiang as North Korea is still closed to foreign investment.once North Korea is open that possibility will be lost and Vladivostok would lose an impressive Market. So I wonder if Russian and Chinese Authorities, now that they have reached an agreement about international borders, cannot undertake the necessary investment (rail and road) and international agreement to undertake the full connection between Vladivostok and Harbin industrial companies. Vladivostok will be the main point of entry for Exports and Imports directed not just to the Russian Far East but also to Heilongjiang.

permalink quote Enrique

Enrique 22 July, 2008, 23:35

It is clearly possible a new highway connecting directly Harbin and Vladivostok saving about 200 Kms. as the present rail and highway goes too far North towards Ussurysk. At the same time, as much important is the fact that two Prefectures (Jixi and Jiamusi) don´t have a direct connection to the Pacific and have to go too, too far away to reach the present road and railway, so a new road and railway connecting directly these Prefectures to Vladivostok would allow their companies to find a shorter and much more economic way to the Pacific exports to Japan and the World. More important now that the price of transport is increasing.

permalink quote Enrique

Californian 25 July, 2008, 09:03

Ok, first off, claiming that one country is closer to the Artic then another is plain silly. It's like claiming that China is closer to Russia then Finland! There are a lot of countries, (even Denmark) that border the Artic, and in an ideal World the Artic would be shared. However Russia, under Putin, has been developing its Arctic Technology, while NATO countries were not. The result is in your hands. If you put your money into NATO instead of Civillian Research and Development, Russia gets Arctic Oil and you get fucked. Welcome to the real World kids. And Canadians, stop whining already. You should've picked a better gov't. then Harper and the fact that you picked Harper, cannot possibly be Putin's fault.

permalink quote Californian

Enrique 28 July, 2008, 08:13

Even if the capital of Russia is transferred to Krasnoyarsk, Moscow will continue thriving like Shangai, New York, Los Angeles or Milano, none of them capital of their nation. Private Corporations will keep their headquarters in Moscow and also some of the public corporations. But Krasnoyarsk would make the next Presidents of Russia to have a different vision of the World being closer not just to Vladivostok, Irkutsk or Kanthy-Mansiysk but also to China and Kazakhstan. At the same time that move will drive almost 2 million Russians and Ukrainians East reversing the Siberian trend of abandoning the Far East. Part of them will arrive at Vladivostok which is a city of the future, and that will make less important the need for Chinese immigrants. Of course, it is a risk as Moscow is a thriving city in the heart of European Russia, close to St. Petersbourg, Sochi, Athens, Berlin, Helsinki or even Rome so a next Russians Presidents will have to travel more hours to meet their European counterparts even if lees hours to meet their Asian (China, Korea, Japan) counterparts.

permalink quote Enrique

Enrique 30 July, 2008, 09:30

Russia doesn´t need to build a new city but just to adapt the present city of Krasnoyarsk to become the nation´s Capital as its location is excellent: 1. Add a new Terminal to the Yemelyanovo Airport so it can work as a hub between Europe and the Asian Far East. 2. Refurbish the Railway Station. If Spain has already a high speed train (AVE) from Barcelona to Seville (over 1,000 Kms.) then Russia can have a high speed train from Moscow to Krasnoyarsk (4,000 Kms.) by the year 2028. 3. Build new Avenues, including new Shopping Centers, and adapt the present ones for the Ministry Buildings and thousands of employees. 4. Improved Superhighway from Moscow to Krasnoyarsk as the global warming means roads will be open during a longer period of the year. Well, I think urban experts would have much better ideas to adapt the city of Krasnoyarsk to become a new wonderful capital of Russia.

permalink quote Enrique

Enrique 31 July, 2008, 07:44

The only problem for Krasnoyarsk is that the Zheleznogorsk nuclear complex is so close to the city.

permalink quote Enrique

K 9 August, 2008, 17:12

I

permalink quote K

canobs 6 December, 2011, 05:26

Mourmansk and Vladivostok would become the most important ports for Russia, US have access with Alaska and Canada, as the actual Harper government is their puppet.____In the meantime we have the Economic crisis to solve first, GoldmanSachs succeeding in destroying the European Economy (starting with Greece) and the Euro currency, Germany tried to help as 20% of its banking is public but not enough to last for very long. Even China is now in trouble holding too much of US debt now bankrupt (and not wanting to admit it)______Ahamadinejad once said at the UN---The USA printed in the last 30 years for 29,000 billions of dollars in treasury bonds and currency, without any backing (gold or resource). With this fake money, they took control of the resources of the entire world, being the most important scam (steal or robbery) in world history._______ONLY WAY to solve this crisis, apply the theories of the Economist Clifford Hugh Douglas (social credit with public banks) apply the Tobin tax on market transactions to stop lobbeying and speculation legalized fraud, prohibit fiscal heavens and hedge funds, and limit the salaries bonuses and commissions of managers traders brokers to reasonable levels having them to pay their share of taxes.

permalink quote canobs

Name*
Country, City
Valid e-mail*
Text*
Enter digits below*

	*Required fields