Is Russia doing enough to secure energy supplies to Europe?


Energizer 18 January, 2008, 17:33	Energy supplies, if taken in isolation, are simple economics - It flows from the ‘Supplier’ to the ‘consumer’, along the most economical and potentially safest routes. However, there is always the ‘inrevitable’ villain in every plot - in this case - politics! Countries whose self interests and self importance is disturbed, due one reason or the other, like - the belief that they’re sitting on important transit routes, those that believe that ‘diversification’ of routes/suppliers are needed and those that just play those POLITICAL GAMES always try to act the spoilsport – to the detriment of both the supplier as well as the consumer/s. Thus, if this can be avoided and most probably, is being tried, with some measure of success by Russian Companies, the scenario can turn for the much better in a few years… permalink quote 0 Energizer
Norman 18 January, 2008, 19:09	I am impressed with Russia's energy resources and policies. My advice to the Russian government and energy companies is to use the resources wisely and protect their investments. That includes charging international rates. permalink quote 0 Norman
MihalMihalich 18 January, 2008, 20:30	Dear Ladies & Gentlemen There are two things to this blown out of proportion nonsense about energy security. First is overall amount of natural resources available, second is foreign capital in Russian oil/gas/distribution companies. 1. As a result of reforms and reduced Government presence in energy sector the geological survey was pretty much suspended. In recent years as Government stated buying back energy sector business they started prospecting again. At the same time Russia worked out deals with some former USSR republic buy most their gas. So Government does everything it can in search of energy supplies and new ways of distribution. A good example would be 4 tankers for natural gas transportation for Japan. 2. Is sufficient presence of European capital in Russian Energy sector. As you know Russians don’t let them because those Russians want something in return… so what do they want? A cookie? Russians want equal Financial presence in energy sector of Europe, but since Europe has oil or gas, they want their money in Distribution sector. For those who don’t know, You make more money in Transport/Distribution (maybe 10 times more) than you do in actual raw oil & gas. When Russians said we want equal exchange energy for energy Europe said NO, they said Distribution is not an Energy sector. NO DEAL :P There you have it. Its funny as hell to see certain politics and reporters say or demand, we want Russia in face of Government or President to GUARANTY energy supply security to Europe, as they demand that same Government to give them free access to Energy because Government presence there is bad, with no taste of free market, and hint of no security. PS USSR and now Russia has been fulfilling all oil & gas contract for past 40 years, current contracts are signed all way to 2027 or something, I think Europe will be fine as long as Russia is fine. Best Regards. permalink quote 0 MihalMihalich
Sevodnya_Net 18 January, 2008, 22:07	I don't think Europe will mind too much if it isn't. After the pricing disputes with Ukraine and Belarus, which did tremendous harm to Russia's reputation as a reliable supplier of gas to the west, many now fear that Russia will not use its position as a key supplier of energy to the world wisely. I believe Russia has now backtracked on this unwise policy, but the damage may be irreparable. permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
harryposter 19 January, 2008, 02:12	We don't need Russia's gas here in the UK, we have enough of this for cheap in the North Sea. But I am ashamed about Bulgaria agreeing to be Putin's Trojan horse into EU, less than a year after joining the Euro they comply to their historic big brother. I am Bulgarian and not at all proud of it today Remember Vladimir, we don't need you permalink quote 0 harryposter
ROBERT (US) 19 January, 2008, 04:17	No country in the world is doing enough to secure energy supply. Nuclear energy is not much of an option because theres only enough uranium 238 to last only 20 years. So expensive dangerous nuclear power plant will lose money if they go that avenue. Cheap oil will be gone by my estamits by the year 2015 just cheap oil. There will still be expensive oil for farming .protection goverment entities. and police entities. Solar energy is a great option. One other avenue other people dont discuss much is the use of recycable trash such as paper and boxes and other burable containers to make electricity. Wind mill are also a good option.I believe in the Nike tennishoes sloagan ( just do it ) People just need to do things to save money on energy like convert there cars to propane and natural gas.Im going to convert my car to a duel system of gas and propane. gas when I need power and propane on freeway driving where momentum and not power is nessessary. I have to to stay in business.I dont plan on dying so I have to do some im sure most people are the same way. permalink quote 0 ROBERT (US)
Marzipan6 19 January, 2008, 07:21	It is not in Russia’s apparent interests to “secure energy supplies to Europe,” but to make Europe increasingly dependent on Russian energy supplies, because then Russia would have maximum leverage in influencing European policies and development by manipulating its energy supply levers. Strangely enough, not all European leaders seem to understand this, and tend to deal with Russia as if it was just a normal player in an ordinary market. But even being an energy manipulator is only in Russia's short-term, not long-term interest. Ultimately, Russia’s interests are best served by seeking a win-win outcome for itself and its customers alike, because a genuine symbiotic relationship ensures that each side has a genuine interest in the success and prosperity of the other. Strangely enough, this is something which Russia does not seem to understand, whether in respect to the oil market or in any other aspect of its trade. Russia consistently tries to use trade as a political weapon with which to hit its partners over the head. This tends to have the effect of turning others against it. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
Sam 19 January, 2008, 13:51	Whatever the motives are "Secure energy supplies to Europe" and " Europes Increasing dependance on Russian" mean the same thing. Cannt see how that would change.During the time of USSR,western europe was largly dependent on the USSR for its gas supplies despite the cold war.While the new EU countries like poland and Bulgaria were wholely dependent on Russia.More over now with increase in demand.Economics always comes before politics and always will.Logistically cheaper to buy from russia then ship it from elsewhere. the west seems to think other countries are novices in economics and had tried to make seperate deals with other producers who at the moment sell via Russian pipelines.Can tell you that they are not idiots and will continue to sell via Russia as that would keep the prices up.This is capitalism,Business is Business. permalink quote 0 Sam
George. D. 19 January, 2008, 14:04	Russia has to continue doing what it doze now, finding alternitave routes for its oil ang gaz to it's customers, but it also needs pipe lines away from Europe and going to Asia so Russia won't be dependent on just one customer . permalink quote 0 George. D.
Sevodnya_Net 19 January, 2008, 15:08	Further to Marzipan6's comments, during the first Ukrainian gas crisis, a day or so after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine, I had an interesting argument with a "Blue Coalition/Parti Rehioniv" supporter in Kyiv who was convinced that the west would blame Ukraine for disprupting its gas supplies and that it was for this reason that it was in Ukraine's interests to sort out its dispute with Russia asap (rather, say, than freezing to death!) I thought this was a very interesting point of view, bizarre tho I found it. I have no doubt that Russia was equally oblivious to, or had not considered, the implications of picking a fight with a country which at that time it relied on to transport much of its gas westwards. Since then Russia/GAZPROM (the two seem inseparable) appears to have gone out of its way to try to show that it is being even handed and politically neutral in the wielding of its economic advantage in this field. Hence presumably the much publicised "Pricing equation" revealed a few months ago. So maybe it does at last realise that playing too much politics with its energy resources may not be in its own interests after all. As I said before tho I remain unconvinced. permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
Gregory 19 January, 2008, 21:01	fact 1: Russia did not invade Iraq thinking it would be a "business plan" with bullets and that Iraqi oil would bank roll whatever puppet govenrment would be installed by the UK and the USA in the aftermath. fact 2: Europe can be grateful that the Russians are selling them anything. I would be sorely tempted to turn off the taps just to see what happened in the smug West. fact 3: everyone who reads this message will probably live to see "peak oil crisis" and it's aftermath. You can bank on it. fact 4: Marzipan6 is an embittered Chechen/Georgian/cosmopolitanist. Take your pick, nothing remotely friendly to Slav culture will ever be emitted from his/her keyboard permalink quote 0 Gregory
Gregory 19 January, 2008, 21:14	Marzipan6 wrote: "Russia consistently tries to use trade as a political weapon with which to hit its partners over the head. This tends to have the effect of turning others against it." Well that is a fair point but when you are effectively driving distance from Moscow you might as well buy stuff from them. I would just like to say Russia makes for a more civilised trading partner than another oil exporting company dominated by a corrupt, terrorist-funding, Royal family who use dubious BAE contract to get bribes and live a thoroughly unholy lifestyle when on holiday in London on "business" smoothly oiled (hohohoho) by the British consulate. I am sure many people can recognise the country from this description. France has been producing alcohol/water/petrol combination cars in Brazil for years now. Tractors can run on cooking oil in France. The farmers did this on their own initiative. When Continental Europe decides to implement an alternative she will do so. In the mean time I am sure the english (whoops sorry) the British can get a "ready-fix" solution from America. permalink quote 0 Gregory
MihalMihalich 19 January, 2008, 22:00	RE Marzipan6 “Europe increasingly dependent on Russian energy supplies, because then Russia would have maximum leverage” in 40 years that Russia supplies Europe with oil and gas, what leverage they got? Russia was paid by pure emission dollars… printer money. And those gas oil pipes IMHO seem more like after Warsaw pack leftover that insured Europe won’t freeze to death in winter. Germans went to Russia during WW2 looking for the resources. European GDP is almost equal to United States GDP because of the very resources. And so you know Electric and Energy are 2 major factor of economic growth in any country, there is no growth without them. That is what forcing Europe to fight for energy security & Russia is only a supplier. But I don’t think you can back up your words. RE Sevodnya_Net After the pricing disputes with Ukraine and Belarus, which did tremendous harm to Russia's reputation as a reliable supplier of gas to the west, many now fear that Russia will not use its position as a key supplier of energy to the world wisely. I believe Russia has now backtracked on this unwise policy, but the damage may be irreparable. Unless you going to tell me that Europe didn’t get 1 cubic foot of gas or 1 barrel of oil your statement is nothing but a LIE. Frankly after I read your and Marzipan6 New year resolutions I think that you guys are paid to come in here and spam political opinions that might not be even your own, very often you shout opinions of yellow trash press and text out of context. It is really sad & annoying. US ROBERT (US) Ask Russians to build Thermonuclear Power plant in US. It is power of the small SUN. Europe is finishing building one. They started to build one in Russia because the can afford it now. Maybe they could you such high tech in U.S. when they run out of uranium, because there isn’t enough windmills to light up LasVegas. Best Regards permalink quote 0 MihalMihalich
John 20 January, 2008, 10:49	Why does Russia have to secure energy supplies for Europe, or for anyone for that matter? The free market Economic doctorine preached so piously by the USA and Europe says that resources will go where they generate the greatest return, so why shouldn't Russia be allowed to apply this to her energy resources? According to their own doctorine, Europe must pay the market price to secure the resources or loose them to another buyer (China, for example) who is prepared to. N.B. Europe doesn't much like having the doctorines it preaches to other countries applied to itself. permalink quote 0 John
MihalMihalich 20 January, 2008, 18:46	RE Sevonya_net “…after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine,…” Ukraine didn’t sign contract on gas by dead line, no contract no gas… so Ukraine went ahead and start taking gas from Europe pipe as much as 1/3 of it. For Europe it was Robbery For Russia it was blackmail with hostages to force cheaper gas. For Ukraine it was cheaper than Market gas price, Ukraine demanded free market pricing in business with Russia, they got what they asked for. Ukraine transits like half of all Russian gas they get paid handsomely for it, yet every year when books are checked some gas is stolen or vanishes on its way to Europe. You know every who has to buy natural resource sign contracts in beginning of the year while prices are cheap not in the end of year. RE Gregory I think that Sevodnya_net is a Georgian/Chechen/Ukrainian nationalist as he calls people that did Beslan, Budennovsk to be freedom fighters or rebels that fight for freedom from scary Russians that somehow take their freedoms away. and Marzipan6 seems more of Estonian/Latvian/ material because he seems to like disputing results of WW2 and those crimes that Stalin committed all people in USSR the 18+ million starved to death and millions more killed for no reason are nothing comparing to what USSR did against him. (Stalin was from Georgia so Marzipan go ask them why they so proud of him). Sorry for getting off topic, I am not like that but their bull$#@% grinds my gears. [Try sticking to the part that doesn't give you a headache, it will save us all from cutting offences out of posts - RT] Best Regards. permalink quote 0 MihalMihalich
Sevodnya_Net 21 January, 2008, 09:40	"RE Sevonya_net “…after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine,…” Ukraine didn’t sign contract on gas by dead line, no contract no gas… so Ukraine went ahead and start taking gas from Europe pipe as much as 1/3 of it. For Europe it was Robbery For Russia it was blackmail with hostages to force cheaper gas." Without in this instance necessarily taking sides in the Russia/Ukraine gas dispute, my point was that, fairly or unfairly, the West by and large didn't blame Ukraine for the temporary diminution in supplies which occurred. Russia seemed to have failed to take into account that other customers might start to worry about Russia as a reliable supplier. It's a question of confidence, really. As far as Britain is concerned tho many of the problems are largely our own fault, as we decimated our own solid fuel industry for the sake of North Sea oil and gas and cheap foreign imports years ago. permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
Marzipan6 21 January, 2008, 11:18	Dear MihalMihalich Please be assured I am paid by no one to participate in this forum, and apart from my own good self, I don't think anyone even knows that I do participate. I don't wish to trash or spam anything or anyone, and don't express any opinions other than my own. What I do try to do, though, is link my opinions to researchable and verifiable facts. It so happens that these do not always parallel the assumptions of some other participants here, but they are welcome to show any factual flaws in my reasoning if they wish. And I have genuine admiration for "RT" in the way it administers this forum. I also want to repeat that I am not anti-Russian. But I am anti- some of the policies of Russia, just as I am also anti- some of the policies of various members of the Western nations, because these have led to, and in some cases continue to lead to suffering. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
Al 30 January, 2008, 11:51	"harryposter January 19, 2008, 05:12 We don't need Russia's gas here in the UK, we have enough of this for cheap in the North Sea. But I am ashamed about Bulgaria agreeing to be Putin's Trojan horse into EU, less than a year after joining the Euro they comply to their historic big brother. I am Bulgarian and not at all proud of it today Remember Vladimir, we don't need you" Perhaps you haven't heard the news? The UK's North Sea gas is running out fast and the UK will be at least 80% dependent on imports from as early as 2020. Don't be too ashamed of Bulgaria. The gas deal is just freemarket biznes and nothing personal. When it matters Bulgaria is always willing to war against fellow Orthodox countries so rest assured that it will most likely continue to live up to your high expectations of it. "Sevodnya_Net - Without in this instance necessarily taking sides in the Russia/Ukraine gas dispute, my point was that, fairly or unfairly, the West by and large didn't blame Ukraine for the temporary diminution in supplies which occurred. Russia seemed to have failed to take into account that other customers might start to worry about Russia as a reliable supplier. It's a question of confidence, really. " Russia understands the legitimate fears of its EU customers regarding the reliable supply of energy to them and are actively taking measures to diversify its supply routes to the EU to prevent exactly such unfortunate events from re-occurring. The extra supply routes will allow a number of EU partner countries to share in Russia's natural wealth and will help lessen the blow of Ukrainian (or other transit country) theft of supplies or transit blackmail. Russia's extraordinary efforts to invest in securing Europe's energy supplies deserve high praise. It is therefore all the more curious that the collective EU and US leaderships are doing their utmost to derail Europe's energy security in this regard. Fortunately a number of EU states recognise the sinister and irrational political nature of these policies and have instead agreed to partner with Russia on a bilateral basis to help secure Europe's energy future and to do a good bit of business for themselves at the same time. permalink quote 0 Al
sam 30 January, 2008, 19:26	Dont know about harryposter but I sure would love some Russian gas by now.When I am forced to pay British gas £215 just last week,I remembered that the heating bill on the continent is about half that as an average. As for Putins Trojan horse.well I wonder what what large scale investment had any western country or EU had made to boost the economy of Bulgaria? Has there been any that comes near to the financial deal offered by Russia? Am sure Bulgarians that remained home to try building their country would find this as a great deal.In UK,Bulgaria is better known as home for cheap estate investment.Thats selling your homes cheap to other. permalink quote 0 sam
Norman 8 February, 2008, 20:08	I believe the major problem is routing the gas through reliable partner nations, NOT CASH-SHORT COUNTRIES LIKE THE UKRAINE AND BELARUS. The Ukraine is too financially and politically unstable (though a nice nation overall). President Lukashenko, of Belarus, is a political and financial burden on Russia. His whole goal is to get cheap gas, and spread his stale government. I hope Russia never considers a union with Belarus until Lukashenko is out of office. Solution to the energy crisis: have alternate pipelines, and make countries like Belarus and Ukraine pay market prices. Gazprom is a corporation- not a social services agency! permalink quote 0 Norman

Energizer 18 January, 2008, 17:33

Energy supplies, if taken in isolation, are simple economics - It flows from the ‘Supplier’ to the ‘consumer’, along the most economical and potentially safest routes. However, there is always the ‘inrevitable’ villain in every plot - in this case - politics! Countries whose self interests and self importance is disturbed, due one reason or the other, like - the belief that they’re sitting on important transit routes, those that believe that ‘diversification’ of routes/suppliers are needed and those that just play those POLITICAL GAMES always try to act the spoilsport – to the detriment of both the supplier as well as the consumer/s. Thus, if this can be avoided and most probably, is being tried, with some measure of success by Russian Companies, the scenario can turn for the much better in a few years…

permalink quote Energizer

Norman 18 January, 2008, 19:09

I am impressed with Russia's energy resources and policies. My advice to the Russian government and energy companies is to use the resources wisely and protect their investments. That includes charging international rates.

permalink quote Norman

MihalMihalich 18 January, 2008, 20:30

Dear Ladies & Gentlemen There are two things to this blown out of proportion nonsense about energy security. First is overall amount of natural resources available, second is foreign capital in Russian oil/gas/distribution companies. 1. As a result of reforms and reduced Government presence in energy sector the geological survey was pretty much suspended. In recent years as Government stated buying back energy sector business they started prospecting again. At the same time Russia worked out deals with some former USSR republic buy most their gas. So Government does everything it can in search of energy supplies and new ways of distribution. A good example would be 4 tankers for natural gas transportation for Japan. 2. Is sufficient presence of European capital in Russian Energy sector. As you know Russians don’t let them because those Russians want something in return… so what do they want? A cookie? Russians want equal Financial presence in energy sector of Europe, but since Europe has oil or gas, they want their money in Distribution sector. For those who don’t know, You make more money in Transport/Distribution (maybe 10 times more) than you do in actual raw oil & gas. When Russians said we want equal exchange energy for energy Europe said NO, they said Distribution is not an Energy sector. NO DEAL :P There you have it. Its funny as hell to see certain politics and reporters say or demand, we want Russia in face of Government or President to GUARANTY energy supply security to Europe, as they demand that same Government to give them free access to Energy because Government presence there is bad, with no taste of free market, and hint of no security. PS USSR and now Russia has been fulfilling all oil & gas contract for past 40 years, current contracts are signed all way to 2027 or something, I think Europe will be fine as long as Russia is fine. Best Regards.

permalink quote MihalMihalich

Sevodnya_Net 18 January, 2008, 22:07

I don't think Europe will mind too much if it isn't. After the pricing disputes with Ukraine and Belarus, which did tremendous harm to Russia's reputation as a reliable supplier of gas to the west, many now fear that Russia will not use its position as a key supplier of energy to the world wisely. I believe Russia has now backtracked on this unwise policy, but the damage may be irreparable.

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

harryposter 19 January, 2008, 02:12

We don't need Russia's gas here in the UK, we have enough of this for cheap in the North Sea. But I am ashamed about Bulgaria agreeing to be Putin's Trojan horse into EU, less than a year after joining the Euro they comply to their historic big brother. I am Bulgarian and not at all proud of it today Remember Vladimir, we don't need you

permalink quote harryposter

ROBERT (US) 19 January, 2008, 04:17

No country in the world is doing enough to secure energy supply. Nuclear energy is not much of an option because theres only enough uranium 238 to last only 20 years. So expensive dangerous nuclear power plant will lose money if they go that avenue. Cheap oil will be gone by my estamits by the year 2015 just cheap oil. There will still be expensive oil for farming .protection goverment entities. and police entities. Solar energy is a great option. One other avenue other people dont discuss much is the use of recycable trash such as paper and boxes and other burable containers to make electricity. Wind mill are also a good option.I believe in the Nike tennishoes sloagan ( just do it ) People just need to do things to save money on energy like convert there cars to propane and natural gas.Im going to convert my car to a duel system of gas and propane. gas when I need power and propane on freeway driving where momentum and not power is nessessary. I have to to stay in business.I dont plan on dying so I have to do some im sure most people are the same way.

permalink quote ROBERT (US)

Marzipan6 19 January, 2008, 07:21

It is not in Russia’s apparent interests to “secure energy supplies to Europe,” but to make Europe increasingly dependent on Russian energy supplies, because then Russia would have maximum leverage in influencing European policies and development by manipulating its energy supply levers. Strangely enough, not all European leaders seem to understand this, and tend to deal with Russia as if it was just a normal player in an ordinary market. But even being an energy manipulator is only in Russia's short-term, not long-term interest. Ultimately, Russia’s interests are best served by seeking a win-win outcome for itself and its customers alike, because a genuine symbiotic relationship ensures that each side has a genuine interest in the success and prosperity of the other. Strangely enough, this is something which Russia does not seem to understand, whether in respect to the oil market or in any other aspect of its trade. Russia consistently tries to use trade as a political weapon with which to hit its partners over the head. This tends to have the effect of turning others against it.

permalink quote Marzipan6

Sam 19 January, 2008, 13:51

Whatever the motives are "Secure energy supplies to Europe" and " Europes Increasing dependance on Russian" mean the same thing. Cannt see how that would change.During the time of USSR,western europe was largly dependent on the USSR for its gas supplies despite the cold war.While the new EU countries like poland and Bulgaria were wholely dependent on Russia.More over now with increase in demand.Economics always comes before politics and always will.Logistically cheaper to buy from russia then ship it from elsewhere. the west seems to think other countries are novices in economics and had tried to make seperate deals with other producers who at the moment sell via Russian pipelines.Can tell you that they are not idiots and will continue to sell via Russia as that would keep the prices up.This is capitalism,Business is Business.

permalink quote Sam

George. D. 19 January, 2008, 14:04

Russia has to continue doing what it doze now, finding alternitave routes for its oil ang gaz to it's customers, but it also needs pipe lines away from Europe and going to Asia so Russia won't be dependent on just one customer .

permalink quote George. D.

Sevodnya_Net 19 January, 2008, 15:08

Further to Marzipan6's comments, during the first Ukrainian gas crisis, a day or so after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine, I had an interesting argument with a "Blue Coalition/Parti Rehioniv" supporter in Kyiv who was convinced that the west would blame Ukraine for disprupting its gas supplies and that it was for this reason that it was in Ukraine's interests to sort out its dispute with Russia asap (rather, say, than freezing to death!) I thought this was a very interesting point of view, bizarre tho I found it. I have no doubt that Russia was equally oblivious to, or had not considered, the implications of picking a fight with a country which at that time it relied on to transport much of its gas westwards. Since then Russia/GAZPROM (the two seem inseparable) appears to have gone out of its way to try to show that it is being even handed and politically neutral in the wielding of its economic advantage in this field. Hence presumably the much publicised "Pricing equation" revealed a few months ago. So maybe it does at last realise that playing too much politics with its energy resources may not be in its own interests after all. As I said before tho I remain unconvinced.

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

Gregory 19 January, 2008, 21:01

fact 1: Russia did not invade Iraq thinking it would be a "business plan" with bullets and that Iraqi oil would bank roll whatever puppet govenrment would be installed by the UK and the USA in the aftermath. fact 2: Europe can be grateful that the Russians are selling them anything. I would be sorely tempted to turn off the taps just to see what happened in the smug West. fact 3: everyone who reads this message will probably live to see "peak oil crisis" and it's aftermath. You can bank on it. fact 4: Marzipan6 is an embittered Chechen/Georgian/cosmopolitanist. Take your pick, nothing remotely friendly to Slav culture will ever be emitted from his/her keyboard

permalink quote Gregory

Gregory 19 January, 2008, 21:14

Marzipan6 wrote: "Russia consistently tries to use trade as a political weapon with which to hit its partners over the head. This tends to have the effect of turning others against it." Well that is a fair point but when you are effectively driving distance from Moscow you might as well buy stuff from them. I would just like to say Russia makes for a more civilised trading partner than another oil exporting company dominated by a corrupt, terrorist-funding, Royal family who use dubious BAE contract to get bribes and live a thoroughly unholy lifestyle when on holiday in London on "business" smoothly oiled (hohohoho) by the British consulate. I am sure many people can recognise the country from this description. France has been producing alcohol/water/petrol combination cars in Brazil for years now. Tractors can run on cooking oil in France. The farmers did this on their own initiative. When Continental Europe decides to implement an alternative she will do so. In the mean time I am sure the english (whoops sorry) the British can get a "ready-fix" solution from America.

permalink quote Gregory

MihalMihalich 19 January, 2008, 22:00

RE Marzipan6 “Europe increasingly dependent on Russian energy supplies, because then Russia would have maximum leverage” in 40 years that Russia supplies Europe with oil and gas, what leverage they got? Russia was paid by pure emission dollars… printer money. And those gas oil pipes IMHO seem more like after Warsaw pack leftover that insured Europe won’t freeze to death in winter. Germans went to Russia during WW2 looking for the resources. European GDP is almost equal to United States GDP because of the very resources. And so you know Electric and Energy are 2 major factor of economic growth in any country, there is no growth without them. That is what forcing Europe to fight for energy security & Russia is only a supplier. But I don’t think you can back up your words. RE Sevodnya_Net After the pricing disputes with Ukraine and Belarus, which did tremendous harm to Russia's reputation as a reliable supplier of gas to the west, many now fear that Russia will not use its position as a key supplier of energy to the world wisely. I believe Russia has now backtracked on this unwise policy, but the damage may be irreparable. Unless you going to tell me that Europe didn’t get 1 cubic foot of gas or 1 barrel of oil your statement is nothing but a LIE. Frankly after I read your and Marzipan6 New year resolutions I think that you guys are paid to come in here and spam political opinions that might not be even your own, very often you shout opinions of yellow trash press and text out of context. It is really sad & annoying. US ROBERT (US) Ask Russians to build Thermonuclear Power plant in US. It is power of the small SUN. Europe is finishing building one. They started to build one in Russia because the can afford it now. Maybe they could you such high tech in U.S. when they run out of uranium, because there isn’t enough windmills to light up LasVegas. Best Regards

permalink quote MihalMihalich

John 20 January, 2008, 10:49

Why does Russia have to secure energy supplies for Europe, or for anyone for that matter? The free market Economic doctorine preached so piously by the USA and Europe says that resources will go where they generate the greatest return, so why shouldn't Russia be allowed to apply this to her energy resources? According to their own doctorine, Europe must pay the market price to secure the resources or loose them to another buyer (China, for example) who is prepared to. N.B. Europe doesn't much like having the doctorines it preaches to other countries applied to itself.

permalink quote John

MihalMihalich 20 January, 2008, 18:46

RE Sevonya_net “…after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine,…” Ukraine didn’t sign contract on gas by dead line, no contract no gas… so Ukraine went ahead and start taking gas from Europe pipe as much as 1/3 of it. For Europe it was Robbery For Russia it was blackmail with hostages to force cheaper gas. For Ukraine it was cheaper than Market gas price, Ukraine demanded free market pricing in business with Russia, they got what they asked for. Ukraine transits like half of all Russian gas they get paid handsomely for it, yet every year when books are checked some gas is stolen or vanishes on its way to Europe. You know every who has to buy natural resource sign contracts in beginning of the year while prices are cheap not in the end of year. RE Gregory I think that Sevodnya_net is a Georgian/Chechen/Ukrainian nationalist as he calls people that did Beslan, Budennovsk to be freedom fighters or rebels that fight for freedom from scary Russians that somehow take their freedoms away. and Marzipan6 seems more of Estonian/Latvian/ material because he seems to like disputing results of WW2 and those crimes that Stalin committed all people in USSR the 18+ million starved to death and millions more killed for no reason are nothing comparing to what USSR did against him. (Stalin was from Georgia so Marzipan go ask them why they so proud of him). Sorry for getting off topic, I am not like that but their bull$#@% grinds my gears. [Try sticking to the part that doesn't give you a headache, it will save us all from cutting offences out of posts - RT] Best Regards.

permalink quote MihalMihalich

Sevodnya_Net 21 January, 2008, 09:40

"RE Sevonya_net “…after Russia had turned off the gas to Ukraine,…” Ukraine didn’t sign contract on gas by dead line, no contract no gas… so Ukraine went ahead and start taking gas from Europe pipe as much as 1/3 of it. For Europe it was Robbery For Russia it was blackmail with hostages to force cheaper gas." Without in this instance necessarily taking sides in the Russia/Ukraine gas dispute, my point was that, fairly or unfairly, the West by and large didn't blame Ukraine for the temporary diminution in supplies which occurred. Russia seemed to have failed to take into account that other customers might start to worry about Russia as a reliable supplier. It's a question of confidence, really. As far as Britain is concerned tho many of the problems are largely our own fault, as we decimated our own solid fuel industry for the sake of North Sea oil and gas and cheap foreign imports years ago.

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

Marzipan6 21 January, 2008, 11:18

Dear MihalMihalich Please be assured I am paid by no one to participate in this forum, and apart from my own good self, I don't think anyone even knows that I do participate. I don't wish to trash or spam anything or anyone, and don't express any opinions other than my own. What I do try to do, though, is link my opinions to researchable and verifiable facts. It so happens that these do not always parallel the assumptions of some other participants here, but they are welcome to show any factual flaws in my reasoning if they wish. And I have genuine admiration for "RT" in the way it administers this forum. I also want to repeat that I am not anti-Russian. But I am anti- some of the policies of Russia, just as I am also anti- some of the policies of various members of the Western nations, because these have led to, and in some cases continue to lead to suffering.

permalink quote Marzipan6

Al 30 January, 2008, 11:51

"harryposter January 19, 2008, 05:12 We don't need Russia's gas here in the UK, we have enough of this for cheap in the North Sea. But I am ashamed about Bulgaria agreeing to be Putin's Trojan horse into EU, less than a year after joining the Euro they comply to their historic big brother. I am Bulgarian and not at all proud of it today Remember Vladimir, we don't need you" Perhaps you haven't heard the news? The UK's North Sea gas is running out fast and the UK will be at least 80% dependent on imports from as early as 2020. Don't be too ashamed of Bulgaria. The gas deal is just freemarket biznes and nothing personal. When it matters Bulgaria is always willing to war against fellow Orthodox countries so rest assured that it will most likely continue to live up to your high expectations of it. "Sevodnya_Net - Without in this instance necessarily taking sides in the Russia/Ukraine gas dispute, my point was that, fairly or unfairly, the West by and large didn't blame Ukraine for the temporary diminution in supplies which occurred. Russia seemed to have failed to take into account that other customers might start to worry about Russia as a reliable supplier. It's a question of confidence, really. " Russia understands the legitimate fears of its EU customers regarding the reliable supply of energy to them and are actively taking measures to diversify its supply routes to the EU to prevent exactly such unfortunate events from re-occurring. The extra supply routes will allow a number of EU partner countries to share in Russia's natural wealth and will help lessen the blow of Ukrainian (or other transit country) theft of supplies or transit blackmail. Russia's extraordinary efforts to invest in securing Europe's energy supplies deserve high praise. It is therefore all the more curious that the collective EU and US leaderships are doing their utmost to derail Europe's energy security in this regard. Fortunately a number of EU states recognise the sinister and irrational political nature of these policies and have instead agreed to partner with Russia on a bilateral basis to help secure Europe's energy future and to do a good bit of business for themselves at the same time.

permalink quote Al

sam 30 January, 2008, 19:26

Dont know about harryposter but I sure would love some Russian gas by now.When I am forced to pay British gas £215 just last week,I remembered that the heating bill on the continent is about half that as an average. As for Putins Trojan horse.well I wonder what what large scale investment had any western country or EU had made to boost the economy of Bulgaria? Has there been any that comes near to the financial deal offered by Russia? Am sure Bulgarians that remained home to try building their country would find this as a great deal.In UK,Bulgaria is better known as home for cheap estate investment.Thats selling your homes cheap to other.

permalink quote sam

Norman 8 February, 2008, 20:08

I believe the major problem is routing the gas through reliable partner nations, NOT CASH-SHORT COUNTRIES LIKE THE UKRAINE AND BELARUS. The Ukraine is too financially and politically unstable (though a nice nation overall). President Lukashenko, of Belarus, is a political and financial burden on Russia. His whole goal is to get cheap gas, and spread his stale government. I hope Russia never considers a union with Belarus until Lukashenko is out of office. Solution to the energy crisis: have alternate pipelines, and make countries like Belarus and Ukraine pay market prices. Gazprom is a corporation- not a social services agency!

permalink quote Norman

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