Is Russia becoming a true democracy? Judge our election!


Marzipan6 1 December, 2007, 07:22	What Russia is becoming is a question for those with a crystal ball, and I don’t have one. But what Russia is, should be plain to anyone. Russia is not a democracy. Its rulers neither trust nor respect their people enough to allow them to make a free, informed choice of who will govern them. And most of its people do not aspire to take genuine responsibility for their own future, and have no wish to embrace the truth about their own past, and do not hold their rulers accountable for their historical abuse of Russian people. Instead, Russians intuitively opt for a strong “father figure” who will relieve them of the responsibility of actually choosing and crafting their own future. And they continue to willingly embrace the sheerest nonsense of Soviet propaganda which posits them as the bringers of freedom, not oppression, to Eastern Europe, and thereby duck their responsibility for their past. In so doing, Russia leaves itself hostage to the foibles and limitations of just one man and his like-minded clique. And it continues to hobble itself in its dealings with the rest of the world, especially with its neighbours, as it continues to be guided not by reality, but by its fantasies that are very offensive to its neighbours of being “the great liberator” (Stalin was a liberator???). Sadly, a future based on such foundations would not seem to be overly promising. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
Pedro Soto 1 December, 2007, 12:11	There is no plain democracy without free press. Using the the police to intimidate the opposition just worse the situation. To live in democracy imply to take risks until the citizens get use to exercise its rights freely and with risponsavility permalink quote 0 Pedro Soto
Al2 1 December, 2007, 15:21	Seems you are placing a lot of standards on a people who are not cut from the same cloth that you are Marzi. You are a classic example of the western mindset, imposing your standards on other people. permalink quote 0 Al2
Carol 1 December, 2007, 16:03	President Putin is being to controling and seems to be not working with other countries. It is as if he is unaware Poland is a free country and it is his refusal to deal with his countries past 1939-45 that leaves no room for new relationships to build on trust and friendship. In my view Pres. Putin is running Russia as a communist country. permalink quote 0 Carol
RussianJournalistAbroad 1 December, 2007, 21:15	I don't think this question is fair. Would one argue there IS a true democracy in our world??? I would strongly disagree. Besides, what is a true democracy anyway and is it even desirable? Do we honestly want Russia to become a rule of people, when the majority of Russians is not well politically educated? Historically, our country has been in the hands of a strong leader. First, a monarch, later, a dictator, now a president. Its people are not ready for a "true democracy" (if under that you imply "the rule of people"), especially because most don't understand the main characteristic of such a rule: Freedom of Expression. Our country has basically and bluntly none of that. If you would like to question that, just turn on a news report on Channel 1 or Channel 2 (or any other channel for that matter, but those are the most watched ones) and see what sides and stories are presented. Or read a newspaper. ANY newspaper that is popular. Same thing. I agree that Russians keep themselves hostage to "just one man and his like-minded clique"; yet, I don't know if having all the freedom fall off the sky onto the Russian people would be a desirable liberation. Our mentality just wouldn't allow us to properly take advantage of that. The country would fall apart. So, I really do believe we need a strong government/president. I really do believe that it's not really about being fair and truly democratic in general at this point, but about being fair to Russia and democratic enough to accomplish that. Yet, I don't think Russia's future will look any more promising if its people will not begin to question the country's politics, become more aware of the brainwashing they undergo and start educating themselves about how politics should work ideally. permalink quote 0 RussianJournalistAbroad
Marzipan6 1 December, 2007, 21:53	A12 writes, “Seems you are placing a lot of standards on a people who are not cut from the same cloth that you are Marzi. You are a classic example of the western mindset, imposing your standards on other people.” This is not so. I’m not ‘placing any standards’ on anyone. But I am calling a spade a spade. Russia can be whatever it is. Mind you, there will be automatic consequences from this, both good and ill, for Russia and its neighbours. But it is pointless to pretend that Russia is something that it isn’t. Like a democracy. For Russia to be able to constructively deal with its present and build a better future for itself, it must deal with realities. If Russia thinks of itself as a democracy, it is not being realistic. Nor are others if they think Russia is a democracy, and deal with Russia as if that were the case. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
Marzipan6 1 December, 2007, 22:06	Russian Journalist Abroad writes, “I agree that Russians keep themselves hostage to ‘just one man and his like-minded clique’; yet, I don't know if having all the freedom fall off the sky onto the Russian people would be a desirable liberation. Our mentality just wouldn't allow us to properly take advantage of that. The country would fall apart.” I agree. But Russia can either be moving towards or away from such freedom, and it is an open question which direction it is currently moving in. Moreover, the world and particularly Russia’s neighbours, must live with the provocations and dangers of a Russia such as it currently is. Even today, Russia often gives its neighbours a very, very hard time, and their concern and worry is magnified by the even harder time it gave them from 1939 to 1990. So when others see Russia behaving as it does, while at the same time calling itself a democracy, they rightly object. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
RedRussian 1 December, 2007, 23:16	Marzipan, you don't dig it. Possibly, to old to dig it. I have had a fling with a Polish girl once. She was mad about Walesa and Pilsudski - and I think Stalin is great. Did it stop us from getting the best of each other? It did not, I can assure you. Stalin is history - why spit on it? back to original question: Russia is becoming a democracy the way Russians themselves understand it. You might spit venom all you like but when 80% say they like Putin and whatever he does - the world, including remaining sulking East Europeans would have to green & bear. permalink quote 0 RedRussian
Killazer 1 December, 2007, 23:53	Putin is a good leader but I think it is dangerous to allow him to become a permanent dictator - alternative views should be allowed to be aired and considered. Russia needs to wake up to the new world realities and forge closer ties to the European Union and become a modern and prosperous country for once and stop trying to be the old Soviet Union because the days of the SU are over. That being said - Putin is right that Russia is nobodies playground but Russians and the US and everyone else need to keep their noses out of Russian internal affairs. permalink quote 0 Killazer
Marzipan6 2 December, 2007, 04:09	I agree, Red Russian, many Russians are wonderful people, and personal friendship with them can – and often does -- enrich the lives of all concerned. However, it is precisely Moscow’s politics that places such major obstacles in the way of this happening. You see, Moscow has never brought closure to the terrible sufferings that it imposed upon its neighbours over half a century. Worse, it constantly justifies its historic outrages against them, calls itself the liberator of the people that it oppressed, and has never brought even one solitary Russian perpetrator of crimes against humanity to answer for their crimes in a court of law. The lie that Putin continues to promulgate in regard to the Baltics, for example, is that there never even was a Soviet occupation of those countries, and that the Baltics freely and willingly committed national suicide, legally joined the Soviet Union, and happily stayed there for 50 years because they loved it so much. This is a monstrously offensive and profoundly painful insult to every Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian, whose memory of Soviet outrages against them is still fresh. And when the Baltics refuse to play along with contemporary Moscow’s gross insult and maintain the truth of their Soviet experience, Moscow slanders and regales them, calls for and imposes sanctions against them, interferes in their internal affairs and does what it can to stir up internal unrest within their borders. To Moscow, history is not something in the past; it is a present weapon with which to bludgeon its neighbours. And this, of course, has very practical implications for Russia’s present relations with those neighbours, and it cannot help but also cast a negative shadow over the personal relations of locals and Russians in the Baltic countries. Russia has a similar problem with Poland, for example, because it refuses to acknowledge that it was a co-aggressor with Nazi Germany against Poland in accordance with the terms of the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and instead, poses as Poland’s saviour. That such a pose is odious to Polish people, whose scars of Russian oppression are still entirely visible, seems to be a matter of no account to Russian policy-makers. Russia has tunnel vision. It is trying to recover itself from its terrible Soviet past not by dealing with the issues and bringing closure to them, but by ignoring the issues and trying to tip-toe past them. Not only does this not really bring internal healing within Russia, but it actively infuriates many of Russia’s neighbours, makes their own recovery from the wounds that Russia struck against them harder, and makes Russia’s relations with its neighbours much more difficult than they need be. And Red Russian, please don't characterize contemporary analyses of Russia's Soviet history nor an analysis Moscow's present ignoring of that history as "spitting venom". No one is spitting venom. Facts are such as they are, and Russian actions, past and present, have consequences. All actions always do. Russia may choose to ignore the consequences of its actions, but its neighbours do not have that luxury. They must live with those consequences, and always have had to. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
MihalMihalich 2 December, 2007, 06:21	Dear Ladies & Gentlemen Answering RT topic: 13 political parties is kind of a lot but hey if they have enough supporters to register and participate in elections, then why not. 7% limit is high but this has many benefits. Government or president or other politicians are not forcing or threatening to vote for their political parties so I don’t see problem with elections. Democracy is simply type of government with competitive elections, civil liberties, human rights, judicial independence, civil control of the military. You all talk about democracy in general because you CANNOT be specific on anything. Bring your DEMOCRATIC TO-DO LIST, than you will have something to talk about. You want to say there is no free press… 1st press is not part of government, 2nd there is a lot of press, and they cover everything little insignificant problem they encounter, and once its in media government gets involved not with the free press but work with problems. This is something YOU don’t see everyday. You have some problem with Russian Government? It doesn’t govern you it governs Russians. Don’t pretend you like Russians so much you want to get involved and protect them from mythic enemies or long gone communists. You DO NOT CARE for Russians and you come in here and tell them exactly that. If you don’t get it let me say this again… Russian will not take advise from foreigners who look down on them and don’t care. PS Marzipan6 I don’t know who you are or where you come from, but your sorry comments are way off topic and you act like your people are only ones who suffered from communists. You don’t know Russian history you don’t know about millions murdered or political prisons, or forced relocations… if you knew what Russians suffered through past 90 years from their own … you wouldn’t be so quick to judge. USSR is no more and it will never be back, get on with you life. Best regards. permalink quote 0 MihalMihalich
Elector 2 December, 2007, 06:37	Putin described Russia as a stable and predictable country with a growing GDP, a high level of integration in the world economy, and keenly interested in fair and open elections, which are vital for the country’s public and political stability. Russia’s political course is clear and unalterable: democratic development focused on ensuring human rights and freedoms, helping all citizens to fully use their potential. Though open to interpretation, this statement positions Putin as a liberal who favors evolutionary rather revolutionary scenarios. The economy that Yeltsin left behind was in the grip of a tiny group of profiteers, who had seized the country’s major assets in a racket – so-called loans for shares – devised by one of its beneficiaries, Vladimir Potanin, and imposed by Chubais, operating as the neo-liberal Rasputin at Yeltsin’s court. The president and his extended ‘Family’ (relatives, aides, hangers-on) naturally took their own share of the loot. It is doubtful whether the upshot had any equivalent in the entire history of capitalism. The leading seven oligarchs to emerge from these years – Berezovsky, Gusinsky, Potanin, Abramovich, Fridman, Khodorkovsky, Aven – ended up controlling a vast slice of national wealth, most of the media and much of the Duma. Today Russia is a flourishing Democracy, no matter how many seats one party gets?If someone or some party is doing a good job, it must be rewarded, and whar greater rewards than a solid vote for it! God bless and have a nice time today, RF! permalink quote 0 Elector
Marzipan6 2 December, 2007, 10:39	While no universally accepted definition of “democracy” exists, the opening paragraph of Wikipedia’s article on the subject provides a good working description: “Democracy describes a small number of related forms of government. Its name comes from the ancient Greek for "rule by the people". A common feature of democracy as currently understood and practiced is competitive elections. Competitive elections are usually seen to require freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and some degree of rule of law. Civilian control of the military is often seen as necessary to prevent military dictatorships and interference with political affairs.” A free print and electronic media is absolutely vital for democracy to function, MihalMihalich, because if voters are to make an informed judgment as opposed to simply respond to deceitful propaganda, genuine investigative journalism which brings the spotlight of public scrutiny onto politicians' actions, policies and the results of policies is needed. In Russia, unfortunately, investigative journalists are murdered rather often. Furthermore, non-government political contenders have very little access, or no access at all, to the media. Hence voters have no real understanding of opposition policies and viewpoints, and only the government’s own spin both on the opposition and on themselves. Keeping the people deliberately ignorant on such critical issues ensures that voters are not empowered to exercise real judgment and real choice. The result is the governments that are corrupt or inept continue in office, and that the country remains locked into its mediocrity, or worse, slides into out-and-out authoritarianism. MihalMihalich, a lot of non-Russians have a very keen interest in matters of governance in Russia simply because of what Russia has done to its neighbours in the past, is doing to its neighbours today, and the way in which its policies and actions pose a threat to its neighbours in the future. I think it’s a bit cynical to say as a blanket statement that foreigners don’t care about Russia – some do, some don’t. But even those who don’t, do care for their own countries. And it is in their own countries’ interests for Russia to be a stable, prosperous, democratic country with a peaceable and content population where the rule of law, governmental transparency and environmental and commercial responsibility exist. Russia’s neighbours – and all of Europe is Russia’s neighbour – have a very legitimate interest in Russia’s development. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
Marzipan6 2 December, 2007, 10:56	MihalMihalich writes, “You don’t know Russian history you don’t know about millions murdered or political prisons, or forced relocations… if you knew what Russians suffered through past 90 years from their own … you wouldn’t be so quick to judge. USSR is no more and it will never be back, get on with you life.” Actually, I know Russian history very well. I also know the terrible suffering that Russians themselves have had to endure throughout that history, and not just through the Soviet segment of that history, either. But no amount of Russian suffering justifies Russians crashing over the borders of neighbouring countries, occupying them and imposing similar suffering on them, as they have done repeatedly. Russians like to excuse the crimes that they committed against Eastern Europeans under the Soviet flag, for example, by saying that they (ie, Russians) were themselves the biggest victims of all. This is true, they were, but it is only half the truth. Russians were both the biggest victims of Communism, and the biggest victimisers of others under the flag of Communism. It doesn’t actually make anything better in the eyes of Russia’s neighbours to know that Russians who murdered and oppressed Central, East and Baltic Europeans murdered and oppressed even more Russians at home. A reconciliation still has to happen to free relations from the burden of the past, and that reconciliation has to begin with Russia. Such reconciliation seems to have no part in Putin’s vision for Russia. Not unexpectedly, Russia's relations with many of its neighbours is very difficult, and everyone is the poorer as a result. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
alvin 2 December, 2007, 11:57	it is very sad they kill the imperial family because they did not want one person controlling the country and now they want to go back to the butcher stalin's ways, SAD VERY SAD. they should put the royal family back into power at least the country would be better in most ways but more free. do you really want hundreds of thousands to be killed again???? with soup and other horrible secret things, SAD.i love russia with all my being and soul but this is SAD there is not democracy when they are being dictated too,.long live the return of the imperial family, permalink quote 0 alvin
fred 2 December, 2007, 12:20	oh yeah ??? not a democracy . let's see ?? No , come on !!! if NOT RUSSIAN who are WE to say or state anything like this ?? Would you agree on some chineeses coming to your place and say " waht you do is BAD , what you think is BAD as well , let us show you what you should do ." ME not ! probably nobody . (if some wants , ok , fine but go to china then .) do the russians stated about the sofware -bug of the voting machine which permitted the Bush elections ?? do the russians comment on the difference in between peoples enroled on voting-lists and peoples really going to cast theirs vote , in france or any european countries (with an execption for belgium where you HAVE to vote !) NO ! so who are we to decide what can be good for them ??? and then , something good for us , might be very bad for them .!! permalink quote 0 fred
Al2 2 December, 2007, 13:03	Marzi. It seems you do know a lot of the history of that region. Too bad you cannot look at it from afar in a neutral manner. This gives you a different perspective on things. For example. Not only Russia has been the agressor throughout history. Poland, Swedes, Brits all tried to get a piece of Russia in the past. We all know what happened in WWII, I travel there regularly and to this day I see the scars of that war. I know why it was prudent for Russia to "stab Poland in the back" in a military sense, Poland was beaten. No genral in his right mind would have let the Germans get any closer to the border AND MAKE USE OF THE STAGING AREAS AND FORTIFICATIONS IN EASTERN POLAND LEFT OVER FROM WWI. The same goes for the Baltic states. Finland too. You seem to have a selective memory about history, most of what you have said in your posts is what Russia has done to others, you have not adressed the reason for the existence of the Warsaw Pact, for the cold war. You do not address the cost of what the west has imposed on Russia and seeks to impose till this very day. Considering history no Russian should sleep easy in their bed at night, considering attitudes in the west today the same applies. Russia has not, will not and cannot let her guard down against entities such as NATO or the oligarchs of the west, this would be her destruction. The Russians don't give a silly arsed damn about western democracy. They want stabilty and security that which Putin and his people has provided them. You speak/write very well Marzi but you are hopelessly biased and you do not use depth in your thoughts. You must be European, if you are try to at least look at the people who have always used you as a pawn and stand up for yourself. Get real. permalink quote 0 Al2
John 2 December, 2007, 13:52	During the cold war the KGB were described as a state within a state. Now that these same people led by Putin are now firmly in control of the Country the KGB is the state. The big test for Russian politics in the future is to see if this "group" will be willing to share power with others with more liberal open views. Or will they continue to keep moving the electoral goal posts to suite their own agenda as they have done over recent years. I think we can look forward to a tightening of this “grip” on power. permalink quote 0 John
DifferentRedRussian 2 December, 2007, 14:00	Marzipan6 clearly has a lot of time on her - for some reason I am sure it is HER rather than HIM - hands. While I'm not striving to outwrite her, some points raised need answers - Russians won't repent - ever. It had never happened before and won't happen now. If you got a problem with that - well, close your borders.But absolute majority of people do not care much - i agree with Red Russian - about whether Stalin occupied Poland or not, whether the Soviet Army raped & pillaged or not - it all happened 60 years ago. It's like remembering Polish squadrons robbing the Muscovites in the 17th century - let the bygons be bygons. - totally accept the point about Russians choosing to interpret the democracy their way. do not want to go into details - Marzipan with her in-depth knowledge of international affairs woudl know them all, of course - but the democracies in the States, Europe, Japan are very much different/ LEave democary aised for a seconf - think religion - majority of the Europeans are non-believers and laugh at the concept there being some deity in the skies - majority of Americans are deeply religious and happy with that. Europeans laugh at Middle America, Middle America despises godless Europeans - a bit crude, but true. oppps - forgot - there is 1 - that's one - country in Europe that still takes religion seriously. It's Poland. You do know what French, English and Sweds think about Poles and their religious affections, right? going back to original point - Russians like Putin because he represent them the best. He is not armtwisting, forcing, brainwashing or whatever - he just IS Russia. Not everyone loves him - there always will be dissidents - but solid majority sees the world the way he does. Like my friend RedRussian said - grin & bear :)))) Oh - and MihalMihalich is wrong - few people in Russia proper care about how many millions ( were they? says who, exactly?) were tried and sentenced during the Stalin times. Ivan the Terrible liked to fry his opponent alive ( or boiling them when he got tired of frying), Peter the Great liked torturing his enemies in person - last time I checked those two were recognised the best Russian tsars ever. permalink quote 0 DifferentRedRussian
George. D 2 December, 2007, 14:54	Good job Russia on your election day!Wish you succes in the near future on your presidential elections too. permalink quote 0 George. D

Marzipan6 1 December, 2007, 07:22

What Russia is becoming is a question for those with a crystal ball, and I don’t have one. But what Russia is, should be plain to anyone. Russia is not a democracy. Its rulers neither trust nor respect their people enough to allow them to make a free, informed choice of who will govern them. And most of its people do not aspire to take genuine responsibility for their own future, and have no wish to embrace the truth about their own past, and do not hold their rulers accountable for their historical abuse of Russian people. Instead, Russians intuitively opt for a strong “father figure” who will relieve them of the responsibility of actually choosing and crafting their own future. And they continue to willingly embrace the sheerest nonsense of Soviet propaganda which posits them as the bringers of freedom, not oppression, to Eastern Europe, and thereby duck their responsibility for their past. In so doing, Russia leaves itself hostage to the foibles and limitations of just one man and his like-minded clique. And it continues to hobble itself in its dealings with the rest of the world, especially with its neighbours, as it continues to be guided not by reality, but by its fantasies that are very offensive to its neighbours of being “the great liberator” (Stalin was a liberator???). Sadly, a future based on such foundations would not seem to be overly promising.

permalink quote Marzipan6

Pedro Soto 1 December, 2007, 12:11

There is no plain democracy without free press. Using the the police to intimidate the opposition just worse the situation. To live in democracy imply to take risks until the citizens get use to exercise its rights freely and with risponsavility

permalink quote Pedro Soto

Al2 1 December, 2007, 15:21

Seems you are placing a lot of standards on a people who are not cut from the same cloth that you are Marzi. You are a classic example of the western mindset, imposing your standards on other people.

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Carol 1 December, 2007, 16:03

President Putin is being to controling and seems to be not working with other countries. It is as if he is unaware Poland is a free country and it is his refusal to deal with his countries past 1939-45 that leaves no room for new relationships to build on trust and friendship. In my view Pres. Putin is running Russia as a communist country.

permalink quote Carol

RussianJournalistAbroad 1 December, 2007, 21:15

I don't think this question is fair. Would one argue there IS a true democracy in our world??? I would strongly disagree. Besides, what is a true democracy anyway and is it even desirable? Do we honestly want Russia to become a rule of people, when the majority of Russians is not well politically educated? Historically, our country has been in the hands of a strong leader. First, a monarch, later, a dictator, now a president. Its people are not ready for a "true democracy" (if under that you imply "the rule of people"), especially because most don't understand the main characteristic of such a rule: Freedom of Expression. Our country has basically and bluntly none of that. If you would like to question that, just turn on a news report on Channel 1 or Channel 2 (or any other channel for that matter, but those are the most watched ones) and see what sides and stories are presented. Or read a newspaper. ANY newspaper that is popular. Same thing. I agree that Russians keep themselves hostage to "just one man and his like-minded clique"; yet, I don't know if having all the freedom fall off the sky onto the Russian people would be a desirable liberation. Our mentality just wouldn't allow us to properly take advantage of that. The country would fall apart. So, I really do believe we need a strong government/president. I really do believe that it's not really about being fair and truly democratic in general at this point, but about being fair to Russia and democratic enough to accomplish that. Yet, I don't think Russia's future will look any more promising if its people will not begin to question the country's politics, become more aware of the brainwashing they undergo and start educating themselves about how politics should work ideally.

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Marzipan6 1 December, 2007, 21:53

A12 writes, “Seems you are placing a lot of standards on a people who are not cut from the same cloth that you are Marzi. You are a classic example of the western mindset, imposing your standards on other people.” This is not so. I’m not ‘placing any standards’ on anyone. But I am calling a spade a spade. Russia can be whatever it is. Mind you, there will be automatic consequences from this, both good and ill, for Russia and its neighbours. But it is pointless to pretend that Russia is something that it isn’t. Like a democracy. For Russia to be able to constructively deal with its present and build a better future for itself, it must deal with realities. If Russia thinks of itself as a democracy, it is not being realistic. Nor are others if they think Russia is a democracy, and deal with Russia as if that were the case.

permalink quote Marzipan6

Marzipan6 1 December, 2007, 22:06

Russian Journalist Abroad writes, “I agree that Russians keep themselves hostage to ‘just one man and his like-minded clique’; yet, I don't know if having all the freedom fall off the sky onto the Russian people would be a desirable liberation. Our mentality just wouldn't allow us to properly take advantage of that. The country would fall apart.” I agree. But Russia can either be moving towards or away from such freedom, and it is an open question which direction it is currently moving in. Moreover, the world and particularly Russia’s neighbours, must live with the provocations and dangers of a Russia such as it currently is. Even today, Russia often gives its neighbours a very, very hard time, and their concern and worry is magnified by the even harder time it gave them from 1939 to 1990. So when others see Russia behaving as it does, while at the same time calling itself a democracy, they rightly object.

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RedRussian 1 December, 2007, 23:16

Marzipan, you don't dig it. Possibly, to old to dig it. I have had a fling with a Polish girl once. She was mad about Walesa and Pilsudski - and I think Stalin is great. Did it stop us from getting the best of each other? It did not, I can assure you. Stalin is history - why spit on it? back to original question: Russia is becoming a democracy the way Russians themselves understand it. You might spit venom all you like but when 80% say they like Putin and whatever he does - the world, including remaining sulking East Europeans would have to green & bear.

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Killazer 1 December, 2007, 23:53

Putin is a good leader but I think it is dangerous to allow him to become a permanent dictator - alternative views should be allowed to be aired and considered. Russia needs to wake up to the new world realities and forge closer ties to the European Union and become a modern and prosperous country for once and stop trying to be the old Soviet Union because the days of the SU are over. That being said - Putin is right that Russia is nobodies playground but Russians and the US and everyone else need to keep their noses out of Russian internal affairs.

permalink quote Killazer

Marzipan6 2 December, 2007, 04:09

I agree, Red Russian, many Russians are wonderful people, and personal friendship with them can – and often does -- enrich the lives of all concerned. However, it is precisely Moscow’s politics that places such major obstacles in the way of this happening. You see, Moscow has never brought closure to the terrible sufferings that it imposed upon its neighbours over half a century. Worse, it constantly justifies its historic outrages against them, calls itself the liberator of the people that it oppressed, and has never brought even one solitary Russian perpetrator of crimes against humanity to answer for their crimes in a court of law. The lie that Putin continues to promulgate in regard to the Baltics, for example, is that there never even was a Soviet occupation of those countries, and that the Baltics freely and willingly committed national suicide, legally joined the Soviet Union, and happily stayed there for 50 years because they loved it so much. This is a monstrously offensive and profoundly painful insult to every Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian, whose memory of Soviet outrages against them is still fresh. And when the Baltics refuse to play along with contemporary Moscow’s gross insult and maintain the truth of their Soviet experience, Moscow slanders and regales them, calls for and imposes sanctions against them, interferes in their internal affairs and does what it can to stir up internal unrest within their borders. To Moscow, history is not something in the past; it is a present weapon with which to bludgeon its neighbours. And this, of course, has very practical implications for Russia’s present relations with those neighbours, and it cannot help but also cast a negative shadow over the personal relations of locals and Russians in the Baltic countries. Russia has a similar problem with Poland, for example, because it refuses to acknowledge that it was a co-aggressor with Nazi Germany against Poland in accordance with the terms of the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and instead, poses as Poland’s saviour. That such a pose is odious to Polish people, whose scars of Russian oppression are still entirely visible, seems to be a matter of no account to Russian policy-makers. Russia has tunnel vision. It is trying to recover itself from its terrible Soviet past not by dealing with the issues and bringing closure to them, but by ignoring the issues and trying to tip-toe past them. Not only does this not really bring internal healing within Russia, but it actively infuriates many of Russia’s neighbours, makes their own recovery from the wounds that Russia struck against them harder, and makes Russia’s relations with its neighbours much more difficult than they need be. And Red Russian, please don't characterize contemporary analyses of Russia's Soviet history nor an analysis Moscow's present ignoring of that history as "spitting venom". No one is spitting venom. Facts are such as they are, and Russian actions, past and present, have consequences. All actions always do. Russia may choose to ignore the consequences of its actions, but its neighbours do not have that luxury. They must live with those consequences, and always have had to.

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MihalMihalich 2 December, 2007, 06:21

Dear Ladies & Gentlemen Answering RT topic: 13 political parties is kind of a lot but hey if they have enough supporters to register and participate in elections, then why not. 7% limit is high but this has many benefits. Government or president or other politicians are not forcing or threatening to vote for their political parties so I don’t see problem with elections. Democracy is simply type of government with competitive elections, civil liberties, human rights, judicial independence, civil control of the military. You all talk about democracy in general because you CANNOT be specific on anything. Bring your DEMOCRATIC TO-DO LIST, than you will have something to talk about. You want to say there is no free press… 1st press is not part of government, 2nd there is a lot of press, and they cover everything little insignificant problem they encounter, and once its in media government gets involved not with the free press but work with problems. This is something YOU don’t see everyday. You have some problem with Russian Government? It doesn’t govern you it governs Russians. Don’t pretend you like Russians so much you want to get involved and protect them from mythic enemies or long gone communists. You DO NOT CARE for Russians and you come in here and tell them exactly that. If you don’t get it let me say this again… Russian will not take advise from foreigners who look down on them and don’t care. PS Marzipan6 I don’t know who you are or where you come from, but your sorry comments are way off topic and you act like your people are only ones who suffered from communists. You don’t know Russian history you don’t know about millions murdered or political prisons, or forced relocations… if you knew what Russians suffered through past 90 years from their own … you wouldn’t be so quick to judge. USSR is no more and it will never be back, get on with you life. Best regards.

permalink quote MihalMihalich

Elector 2 December, 2007, 06:37

Putin described Russia as a stable and predictable country with a growing GDP, a high level of integration in the world economy, and keenly interested in fair and open elections, which are vital for the country’s public and political stability. Russia’s political course is clear and unalterable: democratic development focused on ensuring human rights and freedoms, helping all citizens to fully use their potential. Though open to interpretation, this statement positions Putin as a liberal who favors evolutionary rather revolutionary scenarios. The economy that Yeltsin left behind was in the grip of a tiny group of profiteers, who had seized the country’s major assets in a racket – so-called loans for shares – devised by one of its beneficiaries, Vladimir Potanin, and imposed by Chubais, operating as the neo-liberal Rasputin at Yeltsin’s court. The president and his extended ‘Family’ (relatives, aides, hangers-on) naturally took their own share of the loot. It is doubtful whether the upshot had any equivalent in the entire history of capitalism. The leading seven oligarchs to emerge from these years – Berezovsky, Gusinsky, Potanin, Abramovich, Fridman, Khodorkovsky, Aven – ended up controlling a vast slice of national wealth, most of the media and much of the Duma. Today Russia is a flourishing Democracy, no matter how many seats one party gets?If someone or some party is doing a good job, it must be rewarded, and whar greater rewards than a solid vote for it! God bless and have a nice time today, RF!

permalink quote Elector

Marzipan6 2 December, 2007, 10:39

While no universally accepted definition of “democracy” exists, the opening paragraph of Wikipedia’s article on the subject provides a good working description: “Democracy describes a small number of related forms of government. Its name comes from the ancient Greek for "rule by the people". A common feature of democracy as currently understood and practiced is competitive elections. Competitive elections are usually seen to require freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and some degree of rule of law. Civilian control of the military is often seen as necessary to prevent military dictatorships and interference with political affairs.” A free print and electronic media is absolutely vital for democracy to function, MihalMihalich, because if voters are to make an informed judgment as opposed to simply respond to deceitful propaganda, genuine investigative journalism which brings the spotlight of public scrutiny onto politicians' actions, policies and the results of policies is needed. In Russia, unfortunately, investigative journalists are murdered rather often. Furthermore, non-government political contenders have very little access, or no access at all, to the media. Hence voters have no real understanding of opposition policies and viewpoints, and only the government’s own spin both on the opposition and on themselves. Keeping the people deliberately ignorant on such critical issues ensures that voters are not empowered to exercise real judgment and real choice. The result is the governments that are corrupt or inept continue in office, and that the country remains locked into its mediocrity, or worse, slides into out-and-out authoritarianism. MihalMihalich, a lot of non-Russians have a very keen interest in matters of governance in Russia simply because of what Russia has done to its neighbours in the past, is doing to its neighbours today, and the way in which its policies and actions pose a threat to its neighbours in the future. I think it’s a bit cynical to say as a blanket statement that foreigners don’t care about Russia – some do, some don’t. But even those who don’t, do care for their own countries. And it is in their own countries’ interests for Russia to be a stable, prosperous, democratic country with a peaceable and content population where the rule of law, governmental transparency and environmental and commercial responsibility exist. Russia’s neighbours – and all of Europe is Russia’s neighbour – have a very legitimate interest in Russia’s development.

permalink quote Marzipan6

Marzipan6 2 December, 2007, 10:56

MihalMihalich writes, “You don’t know Russian history you don’t know about millions murdered or political prisons, or forced relocations… if you knew what Russians suffered through past 90 years from their own … you wouldn’t be so quick to judge. USSR is no more and it will never be back, get on with you life.” Actually, I know Russian history very well. I also know the terrible suffering that Russians themselves have had to endure throughout that history, and not just through the Soviet segment of that history, either. But no amount of Russian suffering justifies Russians crashing over the borders of neighbouring countries, occupying them and imposing similar suffering on them, as they have done repeatedly. Russians like to excuse the crimes that they committed against Eastern Europeans under the Soviet flag, for example, by saying that they (ie, Russians) were themselves the biggest victims of all. This is true, they were, but it is only half the truth. Russians were both the biggest victims of Communism, and the biggest victimisers of others under the flag of Communism. It doesn’t actually make anything better in the eyes of Russia’s neighbours to know that Russians who murdered and oppressed Central, East and Baltic Europeans murdered and oppressed even more Russians at home. A reconciliation still has to happen to free relations from the burden of the past, and that reconciliation has to begin with Russia. Such reconciliation seems to have no part in Putin’s vision for Russia. Not unexpectedly, Russia's relations with many of its neighbours is very difficult, and everyone is the poorer as a result.

permalink quote Marzipan6

alvin 2 December, 2007, 11:57

it is very sad they kill the imperial family because they did not want one person controlling the country and now they want to go back to the butcher stalin's ways, SAD VERY SAD. they should put the royal family back into power at least the country would be better in most ways but more free. do you really want hundreds of thousands to be killed again???? with soup and other horrible secret things, SAD.i love russia with all my being and soul but this is SAD there is not democracy when they are being dictated too,.long live the return of the imperial family,

permalink quote alvin

fred 2 December, 2007, 12:20

oh yeah ??? not a democracy . let's see ?? No , come on !!! if NOT RUSSIAN who are WE to say or state anything like this ?? Would you agree on some chineeses coming to your place and say " waht you do is BAD , what you think is BAD as well , let us show you what you should do ." ME not ! probably nobody . (if some wants , ok , fine but go to china then .) do the russians stated about the sofware -bug of the voting machine which permitted the Bush elections ?? do the russians comment on the difference in between peoples enroled on voting-lists and peoples really going to cast theirs vote , in france or any european countries (with an execption for belgium where you HAVE to vote !) NO ! so who are we to decide what can be good for them ??? and then , something good for us , might be very bad for them .!!

permalink quote fred

Al2 2 December, 2007, 13:03

Marzi. It seems you do know a lot of the history of that region. Too bad you cannot look at it from afar in a neutral manner. This gives you a different perspective on things. For example. Not only Russia has been the agressor throughout history. Poland, Swedes, Brits all tried to get a piece of Russia in the past. We all know what happened in WWII, I travel there regularly and to this day I see the scars of that war. I know why it was prudent for Russia to "stab Poland in the back" in a military sense, Poland was beaten. No genral in his right mind would have let the Germans get any closer to the border AND MAKE USE OF THE STAGING AREAS AND FORTIFICATIONS IN EASTERN POLAND LEFT OVER FROM WWI. The same goes for the Baltic states. Finland too. You seem to have a selective memory about history, most of what you have said in your posts is what Russia has done to others, you have not adressed the reason for the existence of the Warsaw Pact, for the cold war. You do not address the cost of what the west has imposed on Russia and seeks to impose till this very day. Considering history no Russian should sleep easy in their bed at night, considering attitudes in the west today the same applies. Russia has not, will not and cannot let her guard down against entities such as NATO or the oligarchs of the west, this would be her destruction. The Russians don't give a silly arsed damn about western democracy. They want stabilty and security that which Putin and his people has provided them. You speak/write very well Marzi but you are hopelessly biased and you do not use depth in your thoughts. You must be European, if you are try to at least look at the people who have always used you as a pawn and stand up for yourself. Get real.

permalink quote Al2

John 2 December, 2007, 13:52

During the cold war the KGB were described as a state within a state. Now that these same people led by Putin are now firmly in control of the Country the KGB is the state. The big test for Russian politics in the future is to see if this "group" will be willing to share power with others with more liberal open views. Or will they continue to keep moving the electoral goal posts to suite their own agenda as they have done over recent years. I think we can look forward to a tightening of this “grip” on power.

permalink quote John

DifferentRedRussian 2 December, 2007, 14:00

Marzipan6 clearly has a lot of time on her - for some reason I am sure it is HER rather than HIM - hands. While I'm not striving to outwrite her, some points raised need answers - Russians won't repent - ever. It had never happened before and won't happen now. If you got a problem with that - well, close your borders.But absolute majority of people do not care much - i agree with Red Russian - about whether Stalin occupied Poland or not, whether the Soviet Army raped & pillaged or not - it all happened 60 years ago. It's like remembering Polish squadrons robbing the Muscovites in the 17th century - let the bygons be bygons. - totally accept the point about Russians choosing to interpret the democracy their way. do not want to go into details - Marzipan with her in-depth knowledge of international affairs woudl know them all, of course - but the democracies in the States, Europe, Japan are very much different/ LEave democary aised for a seconf - think religion - majority of the Europeans are non-believers and laugh at the concept there being some deity in the skies - majority of Americans are deeply religious and happy with that. Europeans laugh at Middle America, Middle America despises godless Europeans - a bit crude, but true. oppps - forgot - there is 1 - that's one - country in Europe that still takes religion seriously. It's Poland. You do know what French, English and Sweds think about Poles and their religious affections, right? going back to original point - Russians like Putin because he represent them the best. He is not armtwisting, forcing, brainwashing or whatever - he just IS Russia. Not everyone loves him - there always will be dissidents - but solid majority sees the world the way he does. Like my friend RedRussian said - grin & bear :)))) Oh - and MihalMihalich is wrong - few people in Russia proper care about how many millions ( were they? says who, exactly?) were tried and sentenced during the Stalin times. Ivan the Terrible liked to fry his opponent alive ( or boiling them when he got tired of frying), Peter the Great liked torturing his enemies in person - last time I checked those two were recognised the best Russian tsars ever.

permalink quote DifferentRedRussian

George. D 2 December, 2007, 14:54

Good job Russia on your election day!Wish you succes in the near future on your presidential elections too.

permalink quote George. D

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