Are Russia and Britain stuck in a diplomatic war?


alkent 14 December, 2007, 08:59	I have found this russia and uk diplomatic war completely stupid, i had every sympathy and support with Russia over the Litvenko affair, and agreed that they should not extradite Lugovoi. however saying that banning the British Council is really a step too far, and hurts russian people by doing this, i think it is about time both sides acted with some maturity, considering the trade between our 2 countries and also what has been good relations in the past, that bridges were built now and not more damage done, Come on Russia lead by example!!! permalink quote +1 alkent
Sevodnya_Net 14 December, 2007, 11:59	Although I back the British Government's demands for the extradition of Lugovoy I was slightly surprised at the original expulsion of the Russian diplomats, which was only ever going to result in a petty tit-for-tat reprisal. I am, however, astonished at this move by the Russian government. I can only explain it one of three ways: 1) They are very upset about something, evidently the continued fuss being made by Britain over Litvinenko. I find this a tiny bit surprising as I am sure had a British citizen travelled to Moscow and - allegedly - murdered a Russian citizen they would have been a bit miffed about it themselves. But this hasn't really been stated convincingly as the reason and in any case they've already done the tit-for-tat expulsion bit. 2) They are concerned about alleged spying activities by the British Council (I'm mindful of a recent statement by the FSB chief accusing Britain of using agents to subvert the "political thought" of the Russian people.) However if that was the case I think they'd have made some grand public statement to that effect. 3) They are worried about the assistance the British council gives to Russian NGOs (non Government organisations). This would sit more squarely with the control-freakery of the administration. My guess is number 3 as the most likely. It's a decison which, while offensive to Britain, is actually going to really hurt ordinary Russdians most, but I doubt if this consideration entered the heads of those responsible. It was interesting to note that RT echoed the British Foreign Secretary's remarks that Russia was appearing to join Iran and Myanmar as the only countries which ban or restrict the BC's activities. permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
John 14 December, 2007, 15:00	I do not understand why Russia is ordering the closure of the British council offices outside of Moscow. Mr lavrov has stated to the BBC that is in retaliation for the expulsion of the 4 Russian diplomats from London in July but Russia already retaliated by expelling British diplomats at the same time!!!. Recently we have been told that the united Russia candidate for president has more liberal views and many took this as a sign that Russia may be looking to soften its diplomatic stance toward the west, well it looks like this is not going to happen. I think this was an unessacary act by Russia an un-warranted provocation. I hope the British government does not retaliate they should just ignore this “petty” action. The main function of the British council is to promote British culture and to help young foreigners from around the world arrange education courses in Britain thousands of young bright Russians have benefited through the work the council does now thanks to their own governments action they will be loosing this opportunity their places will now go to over young people from other nations. So in the end who does this hurt? The British government no! The British people no! The only people to suffer are RUSSIANS. permalink quote 0 John
David 14 December, 2007, 18:31	Good on you. Kick out the wolf with sheep's clothing on before the wolf attacks. Well done! History speaks for itself, regarding Britain. permalink quote 0 David
The outsider 14 December, 2007, 18:53	Let the BC stay and reap the disadvantages of having no students as well as paying all taxes etc imposed on such missions. Students can be stopped by simply declaring the BC's operations illegitimate and unconstitutional. Origins of conflict/s can be debated, but for now, if UK has any international sense of laws, which I doubt, it should be BC off and gone 'for now at least' pending further ORDERS! permalink quote 0 The outsider
Sevodnya_Net 14 December, 2007, 22:01	This is the latest in a series of actions by the Russian govt which are inexplicable to the outside. The inscrutable Mr Lavrov mentions a series of "obstructive" acts by the British and infringements of tax regulations. This is all nonsense, as Mr Lavrov is quite well aware. But, as I've often stated before, when you have such an adoring public lapping up your every word, and a compliant domestic media, you can say what you like without fear of any rational counter-argument. I wouldn't be so pessimistic as my friend John: I think (in my naivete) that things WILL improve under a new president and administration. I agree with him though that for the time being Britain must not react to this provocation - I think head-scratching and eyebrow-raising are the more appropriate responses :-) permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
David 14 December, 2007, 22:07	As I understand it, the BC is not a Government body - registered charity in England. Also BC offices outside of Moscow to be shut down. How is, then, if a registered charity, is the English gvt so hell bent in getting involved in matters of such nature, especially this organisation has nothing to do with the Consul? Appears really fishy and messy - as said earlier - a wolf in sheep's clothing!!! - and don't be misled into believing otherwise. permalink quote 0 David
Cheburashka 15 December, 2007, 01:06	I am too scratching my head at this. If I had to guess though, it would be both, reason 1 & reason 2: 1)BOTH sides want extraditions but they know they wont get them. so the big scandal grew into small bickering to see which side can out-spit the other. 2)The West LOVES to play puppet master, dominating, pulling on strings everywhere around the world and Kremlin is not letting them do that to Russia any more, so hence the new cold relations. just slightly off topic. I am sure neither the United States or Britain would be happy if another country (for example Russia) was meddling in their internal politics using NGOs to "educate" voters and/or conduct any other political activities. Does the West really expect that countries will just stand by quietly while the US (and lets be honest GB is merely a US puppet) intervenes in everyone’s internal matters, invades one country, threatens to nuke another, builds bases and missile defense systems against 'other rogue states' (by 'other' they of course mean Russia and not N. Korea. BTW, I looked through a number of online dictionaries and basically all definitions have a common 'theme' to them: rogue - run away, out of control, not like the others)? Why would Iran might want a nuclear weapon? Maybe they don’t want to be invaded and governed, or worse - nuked, by US and its “coalition“? Maybe because the West already forgot about N. Korea and its nuclear program and human rights policies, and finally let them live in piece? Maybe without the SU to hold it accountable, is the West is finally going too far? …breath in!… I guess I missed the “…recent statement by the FSB chief accusing Britain of using agents to subvert the ‘political thought’ of the Russian people…” and if that is the case then it would make absolute sense to shut them down and investigate. Naturally, GB will deny everything. I see this as another dead end. The only way to get the west to back off is for Russia to set up its own NGOs and bases in the west to trade off. Yes, this is a “Cuban Crisis” all over again, but it’s NOT lead or initiated by the Russians. permalink quote 0 Cheburashka
John 15 December, 2007, 08:23	If the BC is such a corrupt influence a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” then why leave the office in Moscow open why not close them all? The BC operates freely throughout the world if this was some kind of subversive organisation then many other countries would not let them operate on their soil. strange that the only two countries that do not allow the BC to function are Iran and Myanmar both authoritarian states that like to control every aspect of their citizens lives now Russia seems to be joining this dubious club. 400 thousand Russians visit the BC each year, to find out about opportunities on offer in the west I think the Russian government is scared that to many of its brightest and best are “voting with their feet” and leaving for a better life abroad and who can blame them with the meagre opportunities the bulk of the Russian population can look forward too in their own homeland .This action limits Russians freedom of choice and will prevent many from studying in Britain. This only hurts Russians I bet there are thousands of foreign students around the world cheering because more places will now be available to them in British universities and colleges. permalink quote 0 John
Sevodnya_Net 15 December, 2007, 08:47	A point of information - the British Council is a charity funded by the government. It operates out of the British Consul in many countries. Whether you think they "meddle in internal affairs" is your opinion. Perhaps you would actually care to ask the thousands of Russians who are going to lose their English classes what they think. I wouldn't take the statement by Patrushev as anything other than a piece of nonsense for the consumption of the readers of Argumenty i Fakty (perhaps more Argument than Fakt in this instance :-) ) What I do think is interesting is that the measures by Britain to suspend co-operation with the FSB and impose new visa restrictions for officials must, on reflection, be irritating the hell out of the Kremlin. A cynic might say that this is actually cramping their own dubious activities abroad. When one talks of "meddling", don't forget this whole thing started with a murder by a foreign citizen (of whatever provenance) on British soil permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
David 15 December, 2007, 16:35	What better way to gather the information you want by disguising oneself as a charity. The BC is, as mentioned, being funded by the English Government, could this not, therefore, be a foreign government body in disguise? Wolf in sheep clothing!! It has been mentioned that life in the west is best, ok, but let us look at England. Perhaps we can all start to look at WHY so many people, record numbers, are emigrating to many parts of the globe, including Russia, to escape from the ruthless clutches of the government and local governing bodies. These are professionals including police officers. Why are people emigrating to Russia, not just returning Russian citizens? If life in England is so wonderful why are there so many people finding it difficult to live, especially the pensioners. Why are the police talking about action of sort against the government? If one believes that you, as an individual, is not being monitored by the government, including your text messages, mobile calls, e-mails etc, think again. The closing of the BC offices could have been on the cards for a long time, and if the Russian authorities have the evidence to support their case, well then. Regarding the 'murder' in London, I, like so many others, are still waiting for the English authorities to present their evidence as what has been requested on many occassions which has been refused! Remember, Russia is not of the English Commonwealth nor is it a satelite of England ruled from London. permalink quote 0 David
David 15 December, 2007, 17:17	Further to my last : Perhaps, by closing the offices of an alledged charity (government institution more like it) it is a way of preventing all the Russians from escaping to England with the millions they robbed from the people of Russia (in the war there was the French Underground - here it looks like we have the English Underground) permalink quote 0 David
Sam 15 December, 2007, 18:34	Have to admit that am not to clear as what the british council's job is. I do understand that its an education NGO sponsored by the the british government. Working in the NHS, the only time british council comes up is the requirement for a pass in their english language exams before a foreign doctor from out of EC can take the practicing examination( PLAB ) in the UK. Which the BMA sees racist and discrimatory, and had protested against it. as english speaking countries like india,pakistan,nigeria etc etc are forced to do this exam while none english speakers eg greeks, germans, poles etc do not. I hope thats not their sole function. To be fair, is there a russian council in the uk? If any country wants to close down any foreign none deplomatic mission its their business.Dont see the fuss about it. If they are actually for helping educate people abroad.Then we have to thank the russians on this closure as they can be redeployed where they are really needed ie the third world.Russia standard of education is higher then the US and UK ( UNICEF report ) permalink quote 0 Sam
Sanjay 16 December, 2007, 02:58	The one single aim of all anglo-american NGOs is to undermine Russia at all costs and seek its annihilation through all possible means. As Patrushev said, these anglo-american NGOs are snakes and they collude and collaborate with moneyed elite of Russia to cause large scale financial meltdowns, capital flights, organize fraudulant protests and rallies and spy on military industrial complex of Russia. Russia will not only have to put an end to these NGOs and expel them from Russia but it must also expel anglo-american oil men who are sucking the life blood of russian economy and keeping it impoverished. We must wonder why Russian authorities are still letting TNK-British Petroleum to loot russian natural resources when hey know perfectly well britain and its companies are the sworn enemies of Russia . And why is the oligarch Mikhail-Fridman not been severly dealt with. The rapidly expanding oligarchic power with support from British NGOs such as British Council will only seek to annihilate russian state and russian people. Is Medved capable enough to take action against this looming threat and what are his true intentions, that must be the question. permalink quote 0 Sanjay
Marzipan6 16 December, 2007, 11:24	Sanjay confidently informs us that “the one single aim of all Anglo-American NGOs is to undermine Russia at all costs and seek its annihilation through all possible means,” and further, that they “will only seek to annihilate Russian state and Russian people.” Really? Let’s see if I have this right: ALL Anglo-American NGOs, not just some of them but ALL of them, have one single aim, namely, the comprehensive destruction of Russia. Every other stated aim of every last one of them is apparently just sham and pretense, a mere smokescreen to hide the one and only real aim of all of them. And about annihilating Russian people – there’s about 140 million of them, right? How are they going to achieve this, open up a chain of McDonald’s restaurants the length and breadth of Russia?? Start manufacturing and selling Trabis in Russia? Or what? I wonder, how did all those NGOs all get that one amazing reason for their existence in the first place, and why? Have they all quite separately and spontaneously come to this “let’s all destroy Russia” conspiracy? Being NON-government organizations, who co-ordinates and controls them in the pursuit of that strange aim of theirs? It can’t be their governments – or does Sanjay have some secret insight into some monolithic conspiracy, whether governmental or otherwise, which the approximately 300 million people who live in the US and Britain, and the millions upon millions of others who live in other countries of the West, have no idea of at all? If so, could Sanjay please be good enough to tell us about his sources of information, and reveal to us how he uncovered this amazing conspiracy, so that we can all be outraged together with him, and get them to stop it? Or is Sanjay simply venting a bit of rather extreme personal bias? permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
David 16 December, 2007, 12:28	The issue regarding the BC continues to increase in momentum. Here we have a charity, which is financed by the English Gvt., but then one reads that it is an extension of the Foreign Office. How can it be that a charity is directly (100%) controlled by the Foreign Office? My understanding of a charity is that of an organisation which is there to help the underprivelaged, i.e. homeless e.g. OXFAM or those animal charities to help preserve our natural wildlife. The financial support is obtained from the public and not as direct financial injections from the Foreign Office (English). What has International Law got to do with this affair? Russia is a sovereign state and if the authorities have their suspicions to close down companies and/or 'suspicious' organsations such as the BC then that is their perogative. There continues to remain a lot of un-answered questions, here, from the English, instead of clouding the issue with a smoke screen. The demise of the Russian Empire did not happen. This must really tick the West off. Russia has risen from the ashes like the Phoenix, thanks to Putin, and now Russia is stronger than extepected and will stand up to the West. If England demonstrates just how good she is by having BC offices (sorry extension of the Foreign Office in disguise) how about Russia illustrating exactly the same in England, operate as a charity but having its financial injection direct from the Kremlin but to conduct similar activities as the BC. I just wonder how the English authorities will react!! permalink quote 0 David
David 16 December, 2007, 12:39	Further to my last : I have just picked on a BC site for Rostov-on-Don. An office not mentioned, the only offices mentioned are located in St Petersburg, Ekaterinburg and Moscow. IS this office operating without authority? On this site the BC states that it will closing its office at the end of December 2007 and moving to the offices of a partner company. I just wonder what the name of this partner company is, and whether it, too, is operating illegally or legally? What do they - if you have nothing to hide then there is nothing to worry about! I think there is a lot to worry about with the BC now going even deeper underground! permalink quote 0 David
DD 16 December, 2007, 19:44	Very good Sanjay! I'm glad to see that Russian citizens are opening their eyes. It's dirty and sleezy to use NGO's and charity organisations for different reasons. Its the Anglo-saxon way for bringing in a troyan horse. Now the rest of the world needs to wake up and rid themselves from the tentacles of the imperialistic beast. Because when letting them in, it surely means problems. The Anglo-saxons don't even care to respect the UN. They use it as their tool when its possible, but reject it whenever they feel it doesn't go as they wish.( Palestine, Kosovo.) So about the British counsil, very good they have been almost completely kicked out of Russia. Now please in the rest of the world! permalink quote 0 DD
Sevodnya_Net 16 December, 2007, 22:30	Just to add a further bit of clarification to possible misunderstandings: The British Council's charitable status is bound up in its status as a "non-Government organisation". Charities don't have to be independent of government funding, but they do have to be non-profit-making in the same way that their non-Government status dictates that they be not even part-administered by government officials. In Britain there is a very clear distinction between Government and non-Government. That does not preclude the council from using consular offices for its activities. The BC had seen its activities in Russia challenged in December of 2006 (shortly after the death of Litvinenko, oddly enough :-) ), and in response handed over its Moscow-based language courses to Russian officials. This presumably explains why the Moscow office is not included in the latest directive. I don't think anyone is saying that the Russian government doesn't have the right to do what they are doing - plainly it's their country and they can suit themselves (as usual!). Nor would I pretend that it is possible for the BC to be culturally "neutral" indeed that is not the aim of the BC. It therefore boils down to which conspiracy theory you hold to or how you read Mr Lavrov's facial expressions to determine the actual motives. Normally the Russians aren't slow to cry foul in cases of suspected or claimed espionage, but they've not done that this time. Finally, the fact that the BC is spending a considerable amount of British Tax payers' money in Russia may not continue to go unnoticed in Britain if this dispute rumbles on. It's possible that the Government could decide to intervene and withdraw funding from the Russian operation and take it somewhere where it is better appreciated. I hope they don't do that, but it would be a nice case of "bluff calling" if they did. permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
DD 16 December, 2007, 23:06	To Marzipan: An answer to all your questions: Please not only write your comments but also read the news on this site! Maybe you might finally wake up and see that the "West" doesn't like and want a strong Russia. It suits them better to have a weak Russia, with a puppet president at their side!You see, now they have to break int. laws, put aside the UN and do things illegaly. But no worries here, our media doesn't say 1 word about this, nor about the missile crisis with Russia. In Europe people actually believe the missiles will serve to protect us from Iran!! Marzipan, please read the news, not only the Western media, and then think for yourself! DD, Brussels permalink quote 0 DD

alkent 14 December, 2007, 08:59

I have found this russia and uk diplomatic war completely stupid, i had every sympathy and support with Russia over the Litvenko affair, and agreed that they should not extradite Lugovoi. however saying that banning the British Council is really a step too far, and hurts russian people by doing this, i think it is about time both sides acted with some maturity, considering the trade between our 2 countries and also what has been good relations in the past, that bridges were built now and not more damage done, Come on Russia lead by example!!!

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Sevodnya_Net 14 December, 2007, 11:59

Although I back the British Government's demands for the extradition of Lugovoy I was slightly surprised at the original expulsion of the Russian diplomats, which was only ever going to result in a petty tit-for-tat reprisal. I am, however, astonished at this move by the Russian government. I can only explain it one of three ways: 1) They are very upset about something, evidently the continued fuss being made by Britain over Litvinenko. I find this a tiny bit surprising as I am sure had a British citizen travelled to Moscow and - allegedly - murdered a Russian citizen they would have been a bit miffed about it themselves. But this hasn't really been stated convincingly as the reason and in any case they've already done the tit-for-tat expulsion bit. 2) They are concerned about alleged spying activities by the British Council (I'm mindful of a recent statement by the FSB chief accusing Britain of using agents to subvert the "political thought" of the Russian people.) However if that was the case I think they'd have made some grand public statement to that effect. 3) They are worried about the assistance the British council gives to Russian NGOs (non Government organisations). This would sit more squarely with the control-freakery of the administration. My guess is number 3 as the most likely. It's a decison which, while offensive to Britain, is actually going to really hurt ordinary Russdians most, but I doubt if this consideration entered the heads of those responsible. It was interesting to note that RT echoed the British Foreign Secretary's remarks that Russia was appearing to join Iran and Myanmar as the only countries which ban or restrict the BC's activities.

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John 14 December, 2007, 15:00

I do not understand why Russia is ordering the closure of the British council offices outside of Moscow. Mr lavrov has stated to the BBC that is in retaliation for the expulsion of the 4 Russian diplomats from London in July but Russia already retaliated by expelling British diplomats at the same time!!!. Recently we have been told that the united Russia candidate for president has more liberal views and many took this as a sign that Russia may be looking to soften its diplomatic stance toward the west, well it looks like this is not going to happen. I think this was an unessacary act by Russia an un-warranted provocation. I hope the British government does not retaliate they should just ignore this “petty” action. The main function of the British council is to promote British culture and to help young foreigners from around the world arrange education courses in Britain thousands of young bright Russians have benefited through the work the council does now thanks to their own governments action they will be loosing this opportunity their places will now go to over young people from other nations. So in the end who does this hurt? The British government no! The British people no! The only people to suffer are RUSSIANS.

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David 14 December, 2007, 18:31

Good on you. Kick out the wolf with sheep's clothing on before the wolf attacks. Well done! History speaks for itself, regarding Britain.

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The outsider 14 December, 2007, 18:53

Let the BC stay and reap the disadvantages of having no students as well as paying all taxes etc imposed on such missions. Students can be stopped by simply declaring the BC's operations illegitimate and unconstitutional. Origins of conflict/s can be debated, but for now, if UK has any international sense of laws, which I doubt, it should be BC off and gone 'for now at least' pending further ORDERS!

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Sevodnya_Net 14 December, 2007, 22:01

This is the latest in a series of actions by the Russian govt which are inexplicable to the outside. The inscrutable Mr Lavrov mentions a series of "obstructive" acts by the British and infringements of tax regulations. This is all nonsense, as Mr Lavrov is quite well aware. But, as I've often stated before, when you have such an adoring public lapping up your every word, and a compliant domestic media, you can say what you like without fear of any rational counter-argument. I wouldn't be so pessimistic as my friend John: I think (in my naivete) that things WILL improve under a new president and administration. I agree with him though that for the time being Britain must not react to this provocation - I think head-scratching and eyebrow-raising are the more appropriate responses :-)

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David 14 December, 2007, 22:07

As I understand it, the BC is not a Government body - registered charity in England. Also BC offices outside of Moscow to be shut down. How is, then, if a registered charity, is the English gvt so hell bent in getting involved in matters of such nature, especially this organisation has nothing to do with the Consul? Appears really fishy and messy - as said earlier - a wolf in sheep's clothing!!! - and don't be misled into believing otherwise.

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Cheburashka 15 December, 2007, 01:06

I am too scratching my head at this. If I had to guess though, it would be both, reason 1 & reason 2: 1)BOTH sides want extraditions but they know they wont get them. so the big scandal grew into small bickering to see which side can out-spit the other. 2)The West LOVES to play puppet master, dominating, pulling on strings everywhere around the world and Kremlin is not letting them do that to Russia any more, so hence the new cold relations. just slightly off topic. I am sure neither the United States or Britain would be happy if another country (for example Russia) was meddling in their internal politics using NGOs to "educate" voters and/or conduct any other political activities. Does the West really expect that countries will just stand by quietly while the US (and lets be honest GB is merely a US puppet) intervenes in everyone’s internal matters, invades one country, threatens to nuke another, builds bases and missile defense systems against 'other rogue states' (by 'other' they of course mean Russia and not N. Korea. BTW, I looked through a number of online dictionaries and basically all definitions have a common 'theme' to them: rogue - run away, out of control, not like the others)? Why would Iran might want a nuclear weapon? Maybe they don’t want to be invaded and governed, or worse - nuked, by US and its “coalition“? Maybe because the West already forgot about N. Korea and its nuclear program and human rights policies, and finally let them live in piece? Maybe without the SU to hold it accountable, is the West is finally going too far? …breath in!… I guess I missed the “…recent statement by the FSB chief accusing Britain of using agents to subvert the ‘political thought’ of the Russian people…” and if that is the case then it would make absolute sense to shut them down and investigate. Naturally, GB will deny everything. I see this as another dead end. The only way to get the west to back off is for Russia to set up its own NGOs and bases in the west to trade off. Yes, this is a “Cuban Crisis” all over again, but it’s NOT lead or initiated by the Russians.

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John 15 December, 2007, 08:23

If the BC is such a corrupt influence a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” then why leave the office in Moscow open why not close them all? The BC operates freely throughout the world if this was some kind of subversive organisation then many other countries would not let them operate on their soil. strange that the only two countries that do not allow the BC to function are Iran and Myanmar both authoritarian states that like to control every aspect of their citizens lives now Russia seems to be joining this dubious club. 400 thousand Russians visit the BC each year, to find out about opportunities on offer in the west I think the Russian government is scared that to many of its brightest and best are “voting with their feet” and leaving for a better life abroad and who can blame them with the meagre opportunities the bulk of the Russian population can look forward too in their own homeland .This action limits Russians freedom of choice and will prevent many from studying in Britain. This only hurts Russians I bet there are thousands of foreign students around the world cheering because more places will now be available to them in British universities and colleges.

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Sevodnya_Net 15 December, 2007, 08:47

A point of information - the British Council is a charity funded by the government. It operates out of the British Consul in many countries. Whether you think they "meddle in internal affairs" is your opinion. Perhaps you would actually care to ask the thousands of Russians who are going to lose their English classes what they think. I wouldn't take the statement by Patrushev as anything other than a piece of nonsense for the consumption of the readers of Argumenty i Fakty (perhaps more Argument than Fakt in this instance :-) ) What I do think is interesting is that the measures by Britain to suspend co-operation with the FSB and impose new visa restrictions for officials must, on reflection, be irritating the hell out of the Kremlin. A cynic might say that this is actually cramping their own dubious activities abroad. When one talks of "meddling", don't forget this whole thing started with a murder by a foreign citizen (of whatever provenance) on British soil

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David 15 December, 2007, 16:35

What better way to gather the information you want by disguising oneself as a charity. The BC is, as mentioned, being funded by the English Government, could this not, therefore, be a foreign government body in disguise? Wolf in sheep clothing!! It has been mentioned that life in the west is best, ok, but let us look at England. Perhaps we can all start to look at WHY so many people, record numbers, are emigrating to many parts of the globe, including Russia, to escape from the ruthless clutches of the government and local governing bodies. These are professionals including police officers. Why are people emigrating to Russia, not just returning Russian citizens? If life in England is so wonderful why are there so many people finding it difficult to live, especially the pensioners. Why are the police talking about action of sort against the government? If one believes that you, as an individual, is not being monitored by the government, including your text messages, mobile calls, e-mails etc, think again. The closing of the BC offices could have been on the cards for a long time, and if the Russian authorities have the evidence to support their case, well then. Regarding the 'murder' in London, I, like so many others, are still waiting for the English authorities to present their evidence as what has been requested on many occassions which has been refused! Remember, Russia is not of the English Commonwealth nor is it a satelite of England ruled from London.

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David 15 December, 2007, 17:17

Further to my last : Perhaps, by closing the offices of an alledged charity (government institution more like it) it is a way of preventing all the Russians from escaping to England with the millions they robbed from the people of Russia (in the war there was the French Underground - here it looks like we have the English Underground)

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Sam 15 December, 2007, 18:34

Have to admit that am not to clear as what the british council's job is. I do understand that its an education NGO sponsored by the the british government. Working in the NHS, the only time british council comes up is the requirement for a pass in their english language exams before a foreign doctor from out of EC can take the practicing examination( PLAB ) in the UK. Which the BMA sees racist and discrimatory, and had protested against it. as english speaking countries like india,pakistan,nigeria etc etc are forced to do this exam while none english speakers eg greeks, germans, poles etc do not. I hope thats not their sole function. To be fair, is there a russian council in the uk? If any country wants to close down any foreign none deplomatic mission its their business.Dont see the fuss about it. If they are actually for helping educate people abroad.Then we have to thank the russians on this closure as they can be redeployed where they are really needed ie the third world.Russia standard of education is higher then the US and UK ( UNICEF report )

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Sanjay 16 December, 2007, 02:58

The one single aim of all anglo-american NGOs is to undermine Russia at all costs and seek its annihilation through all possible means. As Patrushev said, these anglo-american NGOs are snakes and they collude and collaborate with moneyed elite of Russia to cause large scale financial meltdowns, capital flights, organize fraudulant protests and rallies and spy on military industrial complex of Russia. Russia will not only have to put an end to these NGOs and expel them from Russia but it must also expel anglo-american oil men who are sucking the life blood of russian economy and keeping it impoverished. We must wonder why Russian authorities are still letting TNK-British Petroleum to loot russian natural resources when hey know perfectly well britain and its companies are the sworn enemies of Russia . And why is the oligarch Mikhail-Fridman not been severly dealt with. The rapidly expanding oligarchic power with support from British NGOs such as British Council will only seek to annihilate russian state and russian people. Is Medved capable enough to take action against this looming threat and what are his true intentions, that must be the question.

permalink quote Sanjay

Marzipan6 16 December, 2007, 11:24

Sanjay confidently informs us that “the one single aim of all Anglo-American NGOs is to undermine Russia at all costs and seek its annihilation through all possible means,” and further, that they “will only seek to annihilate Russian state and Russian people.” Really? Let’s see if I have this right: ALL Anglo-American NGOs, not just some of them but ALL of them, have one single aim, namely, the comprehensive destruction of Russia. Every other stated aim of every last one of them is apparently just sham and pretense, a mere smokescreen to hide the one and only real aim of all of them. And about annihilating Russian people – there’s about 140 million of them, right? How are they going to achieve this, open up a chain of McDonald’s restaurants the length and breadth of Russia?? Start manufacturing and selling Trabis in Russia? Or what? I wonder, how did all those NGOs all get that one amazing reason for their existence in the first place, and why? Have they all quite separately and spontaneously come to this “let’s all destroy Russia” conspiracy? Being NON-government organizations, who co-ordinates and controls them in the pursuit of that strange aim of theirs? It can’t be their governments – or does Sanjay have some secret insight into some monolithic conspiracy, whether governmental or otherwise, which the approximately 300 million people who live in the US and Britain, and the millions upon millions of others who live in other countries of the West, have no idea of at all? If so, could Sanjay please be good enough to tell us about his sources of information, and reveal to us how he uncovered this amazing conspiracy, so that we can all be outraged together with him, and get them to stop it? Or is Sanjay simply venting a bit of rather extreme personal bias?

permalink quote Marzipan6

David 16 December, 2007, 12:28

The issue regarding the BC continues to increase in momentum. Here we have a charity, which is financed by the English Gvt., but then one reads that it is an extension of the Foreign Office. How can it be that a charity is directly (100%) controlled by the Foreign Office? My understanding of a charity is that of an organisation which is there to help the underprivelaged, i.e. homeless e.g. OXFAM or those animal charities to help preserve our natural wildlife. The financial support is obtained from the public and not as direct financial injections from the Foreign Office (English). What has International Law got to do with this affair? Russia is a sovereign state and if the authorities have their suspicions to close down companies and/or 'suspicious' organsations such as the BC then that is their perogative. There continues to remain a lot of un-answered questions, here, from the English, instead of clouding the issue with a smoke screen. The demise of the Russian Empire did not happen. This must really tick the West off. Russia has risen from the ashes like the Phoenix, thanks to Putin, and now Russia is stronger than extepected and will stand up to the West. If England demonstrates just how good she is by having BC offices (sorry extension of the Foreign Office in disguise) how about Russia illustrating exactly the same in England, operate as a charity but having its financial injection direct from the Kremlin but to conduct similar activities as the BC. I just wonder how the English authorities will react!!

permalink quote David

David 16 December, 2007, 12:39

Further to my last : I have just picked on a BC site for Rostov-on-Don. An office not mentioned, the only offices mentioned are located in St Petersburg, Ekaterinburg and Moscow. IS this office operating without authority? On this site the BC states that it will closing its office at the end of December 2007 and moving to the offices of a partner company. I just wonder what the name of this partner company is, and whether it, too, is operating illegally or legally? What do they - if you have nothing to hide then there is nothing to worry about! I think there is a lot to worry about with the BC now going even deeper underground!

permalink quote David

DD 16 December, 2007, 19:44

Very good Sanjay! I'm glad to see that Russian citizens are opening their eyes. It's dirty and sleezy to use NGO's and charity organisations for different reasons. Its the Anglo-saxon way for bringing in a troyan horse. Now the rest of the world needs to wake up and rid themselves from the tentacles of the imperialistic beast. Because when letting them in, it surely means problems. The Anglo-saxons don't even care to respect the UN. They use it as their tool when its possible, but reject it whenever they feel it doesn't go as they wish.( Palestine, Kosovo.) So about the British counsil, very good they have been almost completely kicked out of Russia. Now please in the rest of the world!

permalink quote DD

Sevodnya_Net 16 December, 2007, 22:30

Just to add a further bit of clarification to possible misunderstandings: The British Council's charitable status is bound up in its status as a "non-Government organisation". Charities don't have to be independent of government funding, but they do have to be non-profit-making in the same way that their non-Government status dictates that they be not even part-administered by government officials. In Britain there is a very clear distinction between Government and non-Government. That does not preclude the council from using consular offices for its activities. The BC had seen its activities in Russia challenged in December of 2006 (shortly after the death of Litvinenko, oddly enough :-) ), and in response handed over its Moscow-based language courses to Russian officials. This presumably explains why the Moscow office is not included in the latest directive. I don't think anyone is saying that the Russian government doesn't have the right to do what they are doing - plainly it's their country and they can suit themselves (as usual!). Nor would I pretend that it is possible for the BC to be culturally "neutral" indeed that is not the aim of the BC. It therefore boils down to which conspiracy theory you hold to or how you read Mr Lavrov's facial expressions to determine the actual motives. Normally the Russians aren't slow to cry foul in cases of suspected or claimed espionage, but they've not done that this time. Finally, the fact that the BC is spending a considerable amount of British Tax payers' money in Russia may not continue to go unnoticed in Britain if this dispute rumbles on. It's possible that the Government could decide to intervene and withdraw funding from the Russian operation and take it somewhere where it is better appreciated. I hope they don't do that, but it would be a nice case of "bluff calling" if they did.

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

DD 16 December, 2007, 23:06

To Marzipan: An answer to all your questions: Please not only write your comments but also read the news on this site! Maybe you might finally wake up and see that the "West" doesn't like and want a strong Russia. It suits them better to have a weak Russia, with a puppet president at their side!You see, now they have to break int. laws, put aside the UN and do things illegaly. But no worries here, our media doesn't say 1 word about this, nor about the missile crisis with Russia. In Europe people actually believe the missiles will serve to protect us from Iran!! Marzipan, please read the news, not only the Western media, and then think for yourself! DD, Brussels

permalink quote DD

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