Georgia-Russia wrangle: who’s right?, page 3


Cannuck 28 August, 2008, 17:27	From what I have read on both North American and Russian news sites, I have come to the conclusion that Russia did not start this conflict. Who can blame Russia for defending its citizens? I say to the Russian people and no less to Mr.Putin himself Good for You! Stand by your people and defend them! I am a Canadian citizen and no fool. We see how the US over the past 10 years (some would say more like 20 - 30 years) have been throwing their weight around the world. The world needs another power to keep an eye out and make sure the capitalists do not end up owning the globe! The world needs two powers to force a perpetual stalemate. Who better to do this than the Russians? God Bless Russia! Cannuck permalink quote 0 Cannuck
Billatl3 28 August, 2008, 17:54	The one thing that people on this thread apparently have forgotten as they compare what Russia has done to what America would do if attacked is that Russia has broken international law. When America invaded Iraq and Afghanistan it was operating within the framework of a United Nations mandate. There was a legal process that took place. It is this legal process that Russia did not follow in turn it has violated international law. Does everyone on this thread really think that the rest of the world inclusive of countries that are traditionally Russian allies such as China are wrong? Russia’s actions speak volumes in terms of demonstrating that it is a country that lacks intelligent leadership and as a direct result it will be isolated and treated like a child. This has already begun as the EU meets on this coming Monday to discuss sanctions and other means of punishing the child. Russia is living in a different period of time and has failed to progress to the status of a civilized nation which is apparent from its decision to violate the territorial sovereignty of its neighbor, go back on its word after signing a peace treaty and to continue to run a state with a puppet president. permalink quote 0 Billatl3
Brane 28 August, 2008, 17:58	I would like to believe that most Americans are not fooled by the constant stream of propaganda on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, etc., but I dunno, most Americans these days probably cannot locate Georgia on a map (either the U.S. state or the country). Democrats and Republicans serve only the corporate globalist elite, and while they are destroying our nation, yet we keep electing them again and again! How smart is that? Everyday we look more and more like a Fascist state and international bully. Democracy and Wal-Marts for everyone!!! (At the point of a gun, if necessary.) That's the neo-con mantra. They like to call it all a 'new world order,' and if you don't agree, then we just bomb you. permalink quote 0 Brane
Konstantin 28 August, 2008, 18:58	and remember: people don't start wars. governments do permalink quote 0 Konstantin
Sevodnya_Net 28 August, 2008, 19:34	To Timothy Paul Walsh: Would you care to translate your thoughts into plain English :-) Otherwise Pseuds Corner beckons, I fancy. In particular I feel that the idea of "Protestoagno(s)tic heresy" needs developing (but only if you have time, he added hastily) permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
JustWaiting 28 August, 2008, 19:40	Now that Russia has benevolently supported the right for independence and self determination of small peoples in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, I am waiting that Russian Parliament and Government will also recognize the right for independence of Chechnya. It would be a logical step to do as Chechcens have struggled for independence for over ten years, just like South Ossetians and Abkhazians. But I´m afraid that it will never happen. permalink quote 0 JustWaiting
Franco 28 August, 2008, 19:53	I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to the Russian government officials, Mr Putin, The president and other high ranking officials and ofcourse RT stuff; who have all stood up and showed the world the truth behind western double standards, especially USA. While they supported Kosovo breakingway from Serbia under the pretence that Kosovans had a right to chose their destiny; where do they get the moral authority to oppose Ossetians and Abkhazians chosing their own destiny? Long live Russia and all her people. At last someone out their can say know to the mess we have already seen in Iraq and Middle East. My best TV CHANNEL TODAY IS RT ON Sky Channel 514. permalink quote 0 Franco
Gilbert 28 August, 2008, 20:36	Are any journalists on the planet ever going to ask Senator Mc Cain what did he and the president of Georgia discuss,- before, during and after the assault on S.Ossetia? The news 'blackout' here is outrageous. Did McCain seek a boost for his presidential campaign, 'greenlight' this dangerous advanture, or act as a back channel with plausible deniability for the Bush administration? I guess the Western 'free press' is not going to investigate.Who will,- we wait. permalink quote 0 Gilbert
sunnymarky 28 August, 2008, 21:06	You dont speak for anyone other than yourself,,Chris . So dont tell me or other Britsih citizens about what they are told my their government and media, Its certainly far more factually than the Lies of Putin/Medvedev and RT permalink quote 0 sunnymarky
Mark 28 August, 2008, 21:31	Russia is playing games with the world. It is like a checkplay. Believe me one day Russia and Iran will attack Israël!! permalink quote 0 Mark
American 28 August, 2008, 21:39	There is alot of real Americans (i.e. not neocons, or sheeple) who understand what is going on. There are also alot of Americans of European-descent who understand what is at stake here. All I can say is God Bless the United States and Russia. permalink quote 0 American
Sanjay 28 August, 2008, 21:54	The greatest threat to Russia are the oligarchs inside Russia. They are shipping wealth outside Russia and keeping Russia impoverished. When will the russian government do anything to stop them. Most of the 1990s oligarchs are still operating inside Russia. Russia should also withdraw its currency reserves and investments from US and UK and invest it in less hostile european countries like germany, italy, france, finland etc. Russia should fully use divide and rule in Europe and must focus on integration with europe and shun US and UK. Purging oligarchs should be the first step. permalink quote 0 Sanjay
Emmet 28 August, 2008, 22:11	I'm standing by Russia 100%, I think Georgia deserves what it got for bullying the two small break away states South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Mikhail Saakashvili has the Americans and British on his side and therefore can do nothing wrong, Ofcourse Russia gets all the blame ! I'm sick of the Americans thinking they run the world, its about time another Country stuck up to them. I really admire Putin and Dmitry Medvedev they are two brave men. I hope there is not another war but i'm glad that Russia has made their point to the Americans that they are not afraid of them ! permalink quote 0 Emmet
Some balance please 28 August, 2008, 22:49	There are such rediculous statements being made on these discussion boards it questions the value that one can attach to this website. Anyone who believes, hook line and sinker, the headlines that are shouted out by both 'western' and 'kremlin' media organs is foolish. I just noticed on the main page of this website, a report on the the prayer service being held for the S Ossetians who perished in this conflict. RT, being an independent and impartial media organisation will no doubt go into equal depth about the Georgians who also perished since the out break of war. Now that Russia has recognised the right of smaller nations to self-determination, will it establish diplomatic relations with Dagestan, Tartarstan and Chechnya when they become sovereign states in the same way as it has opened diplomatic misssions in Abkhazia and S Ossetia ? permalink quote 0 Some balance please
DJ 29 August, 2008, 00:52	Stephen- You mention Montenegro as gaining independence, so why not Abkhazia and South Ossetia. You can't really compare those two independence moves: 1) Serbia and Montenegro agreed on a new political relationship in which Montenegro could have a referendum on independence after an agreed time. 2) If the referendum favoured independence then Serbia would recognise Montenegro as independent This is how Georgia and its breakaway regions should have agreed on to. By the way, i don't believe the Western Media is "tightly controlled", the BBC, ABC Australia, have all provided excellent impartiality for both sides. permalink quote 0 DJ
Jed 29 August, 2008, 02:11	Wow, you people are amazing. I didn't even know you existed. Startling to believe that you people haven't noticed that Georgia is a legitimate democracy, unlike the sham that Russia has become (I dare some one to ask me why), as well as being one of the worlds most prominent human rights abusers, along with China, Saudi Arabia and Sudan. Eventually, America's ballistic missile shield will be ready to go and all the legitimate democracies of the world won't have to fear Russian bullying. permalink quote 0 Jed
Jamie 29 August, 2008, 02:46	As an American I say that George Bush is a moron and the sooner he goes the better. permalink quote 0 Jamie
Kambui 29 August, 2008, 04:08	I think America needs to work with Russia; This is a new era, the old mind state of the Cold War on both sides needs to catch up. We're both to powerful of nations to be on opposite sides, I urge Russians to hit up every blog in America and stand for a more stronger union between Russia and the west. Go to CNN, MSN, CSPAN, CBS, and share your story and express your concerns with both of us. Go Barack!!! permalink quote 0 Kambui
Steve 29 August, 2008, 05:14	Why is Georgia wrong trying to keep it's territory against break away rebels and Russia was right when it was fighting break away rebels in Chechnya (1994-1996)? Talk about civilian deaths! No fewer than 35,000 civilians were killed during the Russia-Chechyna conflict. Who decides which breakaway rebel areas become countries? In this day and age, it should be an international consensus. Not Russia deciding unilaterally. This is why much of the world distrusts Russia right now. permalink quote 0 Steve
Anna 29 August, 2008, 06:29	I conratulate all people of good will with the fact of recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia! I am sorry if anyone has never been in our countries and knows nothing really about them but try to judge , Georgia made all her problems itself , they hate national minorities and wanted our lands be empty of Abkhaz or Ossetian . The world witessed the brutal bombardings from Grad - systems on teh night from 7 to 8 of August , and the next step was planned to pulverise Abkhazia. But God , the highest justice did not allow them to do so , and will not ever , I think every day , how are we lucky to survive , and I am sorry and will never forgive them those days when theinnocent population of Tskhinval were killed or hid in the cellars , please go and ask them how they survived! It is a great shame today for those who stands for Georgia , this militariesd country which does not give the Caucasus peace! I wish Caucasian peoples will gather and will askGeorgian leaders to take a responsibility and like Miloshevich and Karadzhitsch will find their places in the International prison. It was Shevarnadze whon initiated all this once and we see the results of his " nice " deeds. I will never forget that little Ossetian girl who said she was praying and prayong and then the shooting stopped - who will ever be punished for this girl who at that moment talked as an elderly one . Sorry if my comment is emotional , but these days from 7 August were the blackest for all of us , and we want just peace for everybody. permalink quote 0 Anna

Cannuck 28 August, 2008, 17:27

From what I have read on both North American and Russian news sites, I have come to the conclusion that Russia did not start this conflict. Who can blame Russia for defending its citizens? I say to the Russian people and no less to Mr.Putin himself Good for You! Stand by your people and defend them! I am a Canadian citizen and no fool. We see how the US over the past 10 years (some would say more like 20 - 30 years) have been throwing their weight around the world. The world needs another power to keep an eye out and make sure the capitalists do not end up owning the globe! The world needs two powers to force a perpetual stalemate. Who better to do this than the Russians? God Bless Russia! Cannuck

permalink quote Cannuck

Billatl3 28 August, 2008, 17:54

The one thing that people on this thread apparently have forgotten as they compare what Russia has done to what America would do if attacked is that Russia has broken international law. When America invaded Iraq and Afghanistan it was operating within the framework of a United Nations mandate. There was a legal process that took place. It is this legal process that Russia did not follow in turn it has violated international law. Does everyone on this thread really think that the rest of the world inclusive of countries that are traditionally Russian allies such as China are wrong? Russia’s actions speak volumes in terms of demonstrating that it is a country that lacks intelligent leadership and as a direct result it will be isolated and treated like a child. This has already begun as the EU meets on this coming Monday to discuss sanctions and other means of punishing the child. Russia is living in a different period of time and has failed to progress to the status of a civilized nation which is apparent from its decision to violate the territorial sovereignty of its neighbor, go back on its word after signing a peace treaty and to continue to run a state with a puppet president.

permalink quote Billatl3

Brane 28 August, 2008, 17:58

I would like to believe that most Americans are not fooled by the constant stream of propaganda on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, etc., but I dunno, most Americans these days probably cannot locate Georgia on a map (either the U.S. state or the country). Democrats and Republicans serve only the corporate globalist elite, and while they are destroying our nation, yet we keep electing them again and again! How smart is that? Everyday we look more and more like a Fascist state and international bully. Democracy and Wal-Marts for everyone!!! (At the point of a gun, if necessary.) That's the neo-con mantra. They like to call it all a 'new world order,' and if you don't agree, then we just bomb you.

permalink quote Brane

Konstantin 28 August, 2008, 18:58

and remember: people don't start wars. governments do

permalink quote Konstantin

Sevodnya_Net 28 August, 2008, 19:34

To Timothy Paul Walsh: Would you care to translate your thoughts into plain English :-) Otherwise Pseuds Corner beckons, I fancy. In particular I feel that the idea of "Protestoagno(s)tic heresy" needs developing (but only if you have time, he added hastily)

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

JustWaiting 28 August, 2008, 19:40

Now that Russia has benevolently supported the right for independence and self determination of small peoples in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, I am waiting that Russian Parliament and Government will also recognize the right for independence of Chechnya. It would be a logical step to do as Chechcens have struggled for independence for over ten years, just like South Ossetians and Abkhazians. But I´m afraid that it will never happen.

permalink quote JustWaiting

Franco 28 August, 2008, 19:53

I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to the Russian government officials, Mr Putin, The president and other high ranking officials and ofcourse RT stuff; who have all stood up and showed the world the truth behind western double standards, especially USA. While they supported Kosovo breakingway from Serbia under the pretence that Kosovans had a right to chose their destiny; where do they get the moral authority to oppose Ossetians and Abkhazians chosing their own destiny? Long live Russia and all her people. At last someone out their can say know to the mess we have already seen in Iraq and Middle East. My best TV CHANNEL TODAY IS RT ON Sky Channel 514.

permalink quote Franco

Gilbert 28 August, 2008, 20:36

Are any journalists on the planet ever going to ask Senator Mc Cain what did he and the president of Georgia discuss,- before, during and after the assault on S.Ossetia? The news 'blackout' here is outrageous. Did McCain seek a boost for his presidential campaign, 'greenlight' this dangerous advanture, or act as a back channel with plausible deniability for the Bush administration? I guess the Western 'free press' is not going to investigate.Who will,- we wait.

permalink quote Gilbert

sunnymarky 28 August, 2008, 21:06

You dont speak for anyone other than yourself,,Chris . So dont tell me or other Britsih citizens about what they are told my their government and media, Its certainly far more factually than the Lies of Putin/Medvedev and RT

permalink quote sunnymarky

Mark 28 August, 2008, 21:31

Russia is playing games with the world. It is like a checkplay. Believe me one day Russia and Iran will attack Israël!!

permalink quote Mark

American 28 August, 2008, 21:39

There is alot of real Americans (i.e. not neocons, or sheeple) who understand what is going on. There are also alot of Americans of European-descent who understand what is at stake here. All I can say is God Bless the United States and Russia.

permalink quote American

Sanjay 28 August, 2008, 21:54

The greatest threat to Russia are the oligarchs inside Russia. They are shipping wealth outside Russia and keeping Russia impoverished. When will the russian government do anything to stop them. Most of the 1990s oligarchs are still operating inside Russia. Russia should also withdraw its currency reserves and investments from US and UK and invest it in less hostile european countries like germany, italy, france, finland etc. Russia should fully use divide and rule in Europe and must focus on integration with europe and shun US and UK. Purging oligarchs should be the first step.

permalink quote Sanjay

Emmet 28 August, 2008, 22:11

I'm standing by Russia 100%, I think Georgia deserves what it got for bullying the two small break away states South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Mikhail Saakashvili has the Americans and British on his side and therefore can do nothing wrong, Ofcourse Russia gets all the blame ! I'm sick of the Americans thinking they run the world, its about time another Country stuck up to them. I really admire Putin and Dmitry Medvedev they are two brave men. I hope there is not another war but i'm glad that Russia has made their point to the Americans that they are not afraid of them !

permalink quote Emmet

Some balance please 28 August, 2008, 22:49

There are such rediculous statements being made on these discussion boards it questions the value that one can attach to this website. Anyone who believes, hook line and sinker, the headlines that are shouted out by both 'western' and 'kremlin' media organs is foolish. I just noticed on the main page of this website, a report on the the prayer service being held for the S Ossetians who perished in this conflict. RT, being an independent and impartial media organisation will no doubt go into equal depth about the Georgians who also perished since the out break of war. Now that Russia has recognised the right of smaller nations to self-determination, will it establish diplomatic relations with Dagestan, Tartarstan and Chechnya when they become sovereign states in the same way as it has opened diplomatic misssions in Abkhazia and S Ossetia ?

permalink quote Some balance please

DJ 29 August, 2008, 00:52

Stephen- You mention Montenegro as gaining independence, so why not Abkhazia and South Ossetia. You can't really compare those two independence moves: 1) Serbia and Montenegro agreed on a new political relationship in which Montenegro could have a referendum on independence after an agreed time. 2) If the referendum favoured independence then Serbia would recognise Montenegro as independent This is how Georgia and its breakaway regions should have agreed on to. By the way, i don't believe the Western Media is "tightly controlled", the BBC, ABC Australia, have all provided excellent impartiality for both sides.

permalink quote DJ

Jed 29 August, 2008, 02:11

Wow, you people are amazing. I didn't even know you existed. Startling to believe that you people haven't noticed that Georgia is a legitimate democracy, unlike the sham that Russia has become (I dare some one to ask me why), as well as being one of the worlds most prominent human rights abusers, along with China, Saudi Arabia and Sudan. Eventually, America's ballistic missile shield will be ready to go and all the legitimate democracies of the world won't have to fear Russian bullying.

permalink quote Jed

Jamie 29 August, 2008, 02:46

As an American I say that George Bush is a moron and the sooner he goes the better.

permalink quote Jamie

Kambui 29 August, 2008, 04:08

I think America needs to work with Russia; This is a new era, the old mind state of the Cold War on both sides needs to catch up. We're both to powerful of nations to be on opposite sides, I urge Russians to hit up every blog in America and stand for a more stronger union between Russia and the west. Go to CNN, MSN, CSPAN, CBS, and share your story and express your concerns with both of us. Go Barack!!!

permalink quote Kambui

Steve 29 August, 2008, 05:14

Why is Georgia wrong trying to keep it's territory against break away rebels and Russia was right when it was fighting break away rebels in Chechnya (1994-1996)? Talk about civilian deaths! No fewer than 35,000 civilians were killed during the Russia-Chechyna conflict. Who decides which breakaway rebel areas become countries? In this day and age, it should be an international consensus. Not Russia deciding unilaterally. This is why much of the world distrusts Russia right now.

permalink quote Steve

Anna 29 August, 2008, 06:29

I conratulate all people of good will with the fact of recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia! I am sorry if anyone has never been in our countries and knows nothing really about them but try to judge , Georgia made all her problems itself , they hate national minorities and wanted our lands be empty of Abkhaz or Ossetian . The world witessed the brutal bombardings from Grad - systems on teh night from 7 to 8 of August , and the next step was planned to pulverise Abkhazia. But God , the highest justice did not allow them to do so , and will not ever , I think every day , how are we lucky to survive , and I am sorry and will never forgive them those days when theinnocent population of Tskhinval were killed or hid in the cellars , please go and ask them how they survived! It is a great shame today for those who stands for Georgia , this militariesd country which does not give the Caucasus peace! I wish Caucasian peoples will gather and will askGeorgian leaders to take a responsibility and like Miloshevich and Karadzhitsch will find their places in the International prison. It was Shevarnadze whon initiated all this once and we see the results of his " nice " deeds. I will never forget that little Ossetian girl who said she was praying and prayong and then the shooting stopped - who will ever be punished for this girl who at that moment talked as an elderly one . Sorry if my comment is emotional , but these days from 7 August were the blackest for all of us , and we want just peace for everybody.

permalink quote Anna

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