Has the human rights situation in Russia improved during Putin’s term of office?, page 16


Vijay 25 May, 2008, 22:08	If human rights means the number of people living above poverty lines, Putin can be credited with bring the whole nation above it. Read - They gather 75 national poverty lines, ranging from Senegal's severe $0.63 a day to Uruguay's more generous measure of just over $9. From this collection, they pick the 15 lowest (Nepal, Tajikistan and 13 sub-Saharan countries) and split the difference between them. The result is a new international poverty line of $1.25 a day. An excerpt from the Economist - http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=11409401 Thus, today RF is a far richer place than ever before.! permalink quote 0 Vijay
Sanjay 26 May, 2008, 02:43	Here is the link (the third picture) which shows that russians end up spending more than 50% of their income on food compared to just 16% in europe. http://www.metrogroup.de/servlet/PB/menu/1080560_l1/index.html The statistics are from eurostat. permalink quote 0 Sanjay
Sam 26 May, 2008, 07:15	Sanjay I do not speak German and like to read and not just look at pictures.So your link is no good to me. However if it says that Russians spend 50% of income on food it still does not prove your claims on poverty in Russia. It may show- a) That the cost of food is more expensive then other essencials. b) The Diet of the community for example Diet high on meat and fish products is more expensive then vegi diet. c) How much they prefer luxary items as compared to basic. d) the possible low income etc etc.So that is not an indicator of poverty in any way.What more it defeats your own claim that majority of Russians can not afford to feed their families:) Did you know that Russians do not usually drink water with their food but soft drinks? When I was there once visiting friends,their 5 year old asked why I was drinking a glass of water and not the Kvas that was on the table:)Bet that practice will add to their food bill too. Looking at the links you keep coming up with,It seems that you are fishing hard to come up with something showing poverty in Russia and not coming up with much. Well keep on trying to prove that Russia was better under the USSR( thats what it is all about) Honestly Sanjay, since a good number of people had actually been to Russia or even Russians I bet your posts put a smile on their face as they do on mine. By the way, you may like to know that the life expectancy for Russia has gone up by the new 2007 figure.It now stands at 61.5/73.9,Males/Females. permalink quote 0 Sam
Vijay 26 May, 2008, 18:41	Russia is booming: there are more '6 series' BMWs in Moscow than in any other city in the world and there is barely a Lada to be seen among the Mercedes, Audis and Range Rovers that clog its congested streets; within the next year or two, Russia will overtake Germany to become the world's biggest car market. It is not just cars. Ordinary Russians are snapping up everything from baby-food to designer bags as they splash out with their newfound wealth; average earnings have been growing by around 20 per cent a year and consumption has been following close behind. Excerpt from The Observer - http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/25/economics.russia This article is self explanatory and overshadows all talk about Human rights and shouting privileges.! However, as democracy strengthens and matures so shall individual but patriotic privileges.! permalink quote 0 Vijay
Regular_John 28 May, 2008, 14:43	Statistics on there own do not always tell the true story. Please do not be alarmed with the one that shows the average Russian spends 50 % of their salary on food. In the west a lot of people happily stuff their faces with cheese burgers chips and pizzas cheap fast food is the order of the day. In Russia they prefer real food meat vegetables home made cakes hours are spent on cooking really tasty meals. When I married my wife and brought her to England she spent hours in the kitchen she would not look at a big Mac let alone eat one. So yes more is spent but for the right reasons. I’m much healthier than I used to be. permalink quote 0 Regular_John
David 30 May, 2008, 22:46	Sanjay - After the english government has taken its slice from my small wage packet I have very little left to buy any food and from what I have seen, first hand,not read in silly reports (reports and photos are doctored, did you not know?) the situation in Rusia has become better than anywhere else in the world. england and the usa are finished - why do you think Putin got rid of the dollar? permalink quote 0 David
sunnymarky 31 May, 2008, 12:08	Who has been watching the BBC Jonathan Dimbleby series on New Russia? Nothing hidden there. Russians Journalists who live in fear of their lives for trying to expose the Corruption, Human rights Violations and Mafia (organised Crime)in their country. Of course there are many who will never believe any of these facts even if they have lived in the RF," I didnt see any of this awful events when I was living and working there or here so it cant be true" It takes all sorts. permalink quote 0 sunnymarky
Democracy Sceptic 8 June, 2008, 21:06	We are seeing a new Russian President quickly finding his feet upon the world stage in the form of State visits and global trade conferences. He is confident in the knowledge that his country’s economy is in the ascendance and he can rightly question whether or not the former giant of the global economy, the USA, can continue its former role into the future. However, he should not get too smug, for his country’s rise has much more to do with the burgeoning demand for oil / gas and its consequent profit yields, than it reflects any extraordinary or superlative performance by the country’s leadership in recent years. He should remember that Russia is still largely dependant on technologies, design and component parts imported from other states (although I concede that Russia is working hard to rectify this). He should also have in mind, that although Moscow can now boast an escalating number of millionaires and billionaires; away from that city huge swathes of other citizens exist on in frugality, disenfranchised within this new epoch. I urge him to show modesty until his government have greatly improved the lot of his humbler citizens through the greater development of its industry, agriculture and entrepreneurialism. Then it will not be necessary for him to tell of their evolution. The rest of the world will recognise it and will applaud him. permalink quote 0 Democracy Sceptic
Andy 10 June, 2008, 06:06	My dear americans, brits and others english-speaking folks! Please, Please, Please don't mix in your minds and words Moscow and Russia! These are two completely different animals! I'm ethnical Russian (not Muskovite) and I know what I'm talking about. I appreciate that some of you have concern about my people, but just don't be foolished by the moscow's propoganda! Real Russians in Russia is a pooriest people in the richiest country. They work very hard just like slaves in those neo-capitalistic factories only for fraction of what Muskovites have for nothing-doing. Moscow is a "Potiomkin-village" and "ancient Rom" in same place and time. So, I'm agree with those who says that Russians spends half of their income just for food. I know it is truth. My mom and brothers are living so in the richiest province of Russia - Kuban. The place where Putin and his muskovites's mafia gonna bild another "Potiomkin-village" - Sochi. There is nobody speaks about human rights of residents of this place. Those peasants who lived in their homes for about 100 years in this town of Sochi, now forced to give out their houses almost for free and to leave at the appartment-community buildins in 60-70 miles from where they used to live. And their houses all are destroing to free land for some "Olympiada's projects". So, please be wise! permalink quote 0 Andy
Sam 11 June, 2008, 07:12	Welcome to the world of capitalism Andy. Thats how the whole world is. In the UK,London and United Kingdom are also two different things.You cannt compare London to places like Yorkshire or Some areas in Lancashire as in Oldham and Burnley.Even the BMP(our ulta nationalist party) was able to win seats there.Unemplyment is high and poverty common place. In capitalism wealth is not equally distributed. So why do you say that Muskovites are not ethnic Russians:) permalink quote 0 Sam
sunnyukmark 11 June, 2008, 20:03	I think your posting was the real truth of Russia Andy , I hope others take note.Putin or his successor and the new RF "democracy" have done very little or nothing to help the overwhelming majority of the working or unemployed poor in your country. At least in most parts of the west and certainly in Western Europe and the UK those in a similar postion have a voice and are not neglected by their politicians who would do so at their peril as the previous Government in the UK did and paid the penalty. I hope ordinary hard working poor Russian people well in their efforts to be heard even with corrupt politicans and Officials making it an uphill task. permalink quote 0 sunnyukmark
Sevodnya_Net 11 June, 2008, 20:40	I don't think Andy meant that Muscovites are not ethnic Russians. He meant (apologies to him if I'm wrong) that although he is Russian he is not a Muscovite. The whole world, thank God, is not like what is happening in Russia as Andy describes it. I feel you would not have made that excuse during the Yeltsin years when western-inspired capitalism threatened to destroy the lives of Russians, so why is the home-grown version any better? The sad fact is that, notwithstanding the material benefits to the Russian nation and a select cross-section of society, of the revenue from energy, Russia's leaders are drawing the country in on itself under a cloud of xenophobia, centralisation, and obsessive government control. We wait to see if Medvedev's appointment will reverse this trend or whether power will simply follow Putin and his anointers to the White House. Signs are not good at the moment, but it's too early to be sure. Andy makes a very good point about the Olympics. I hope they will be a great success but they won't come without a great price in human and ecological terms. permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
Sevodnya_Net 11 June, 2008, 20:49	. and of course the reason Britain's BNP wins seats in the regions Sam mentions is because those regions have high percentages of non-whites. The "N" in BNP stands for "National" indeed, but it ought really to stand for "Nazi" because they are simply a racist outfit, pretty expert at whipping up race hatred in poor white communities. (Just in case anyone reading this is wondering that Britain's regions are somehow less "national" than the capital, as Sam - no doubt unwittingly - suggests :-) ) permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
Sam 12 June, 2008, 11:39	Andy posted:-I'm ethnical Russian (not Muskovite) and I know what I'm talking about. Using the word ethnic in that sentance can only have one meaning. That is why I asked why he thinks Muskovites are not ethically Russian too. It is in the nature to blame someone else for your hardship and poverty. In The UK,First came the Asians then came the Blacks and now The Poles. In each case they were the first to be blamed for the local populations hardships in poorer communities. Not taking in account that they settled there for the very same reason that they are more likely to be poor too. Presently it is the polish plumber that is to blame:) This gives power to people like the BMP to get a foot in these community. Look for BMP seats and you will find poverty. Makes me wonder,What the right to "freely" have a "voice" can do to others with less of a voice in the same community. In Russian case the most common targets of this type of finger pointing are those from the CIS countries especially Georgians and those from the far eastern countries. Its refreshing seeing someone pointing the finger on the government for a change.We should have more of that here rather then turning to the likes of the BMP. permalink quote 0 Sam
DD 12 June, 2008, 15:54	What many people, and especially those who left their home country (Russia) don't mention is that Russia already established all this progress in only 10 years. Do you really think living standards of all population in Russia could/should be already as in EU?(old EU of course) It took the European countries surely more than 10 years to get where they are now, so please use some intelligence before you cowardly offend the leaders of your home country. Do never forget in what condition Russia had to start from. Everybody remembers Russia's condition when Putin took over, and sees the big progress achieved. Russia didn't need the colonial plundering of natural resources in 3rd world countries all over the world, as the US has been doing for several decades already. So please, before you blemish your native land you should better try to understand the situation. You should consider yourself lucky to have emigrated and found a good life in the west. Not many emigrated Russians found that same happyness as you did but got the same misery and even worse. About human rights, I believe we, the west, are in no position to accuse Russia, considering our recent history and present, our double standard visions, our greed which made energy and food prices rise enourmously that cause more hunger all over the world. permalink quote 0 DD
Sevodnya_Net 13 June, 2008, 07:03	"About human rights, I believe we, the west, are in no position to accuse Russia ." What about Russian Human Rights groups (the only truly authentic voice IMO). Do they not count? And if so should the west ignore them for fear of being branded "hypocrites"? Sounds like a selfish, navel-gazing attitude to me. permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
George.D. 13 June, 2008, 14:32	Human rights has become about one think, exerting pressure on other countries,. Human rights is used by certain western countries to punish hostile nations and to reward friendly,. when the same violations of human rights happen they will be presented differently depending if that country is a friend or a foe . This is also part of there colonialist mentality of the past, we are the superior race, we have to show those primitive Russian Slavs on how to behave, they are incapable of doing it themselves. Russia has to create her own human rights organizations not ones that are funded from abroad but NGOS that are funded from with in Russia. Human rights violations happen in every country, in Russia even more, taking into account her size and multi ethnicity and the fact that only recently came out from self isolation and Communism But Russia has to deal with human rights violations inside Russia with her own resources, and not foreign, especially the ones that don't have the interest or Russia at heart. Those that go around the world to bomb other nations , maybe should stick there heads out there behinds and look at human rights in there own countries before passing judgments on others. permalink quote 0 George.D.
DD 13 June, 2008, 15:55	to Sevodnya: The west should first start to apology for all the unpunished injustice they've brought upon many people in many countries, especially in 3rd world countries! Besides that the west should respect ALL the human rights, EVERYWHERE, not being selective (see Palestine,Serbia,.) if they want to be taken serious in these matters!! As an intelligent person I'm sure you wouldn't listen to a thief when he tells you people shouldn't steal. permalink quote 0 DD
DD 13 June, 2008, 16:03	About human right groups in Russia, here in Belgium as in all over the world there are human rights groups who make it in the news once in a while, and that's all!! Further nothing changes. Should Russia now also complain to Belgium about these peoples complains? There shouldn't be double faces. If you accuse one for violating human rights, you should surely and firstly be respecting them for your own!! permalink quote 0 DD
Sevodnya_Net 15 June, 2008, 09:58	DD "As an intelligent person I'm sure you wouldn't listen to a thief when he tells you people shouldn't steal." Think about that statement for a couple of nanoseconds. This thief might be hypocritical, but it doesn't make him any less correct. (If the thief tells me his goods are honestly got then that's a different matter!) permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net

Vijay 25 May, 2008, 22:08

If human rights means the number of people living above poverty lines, Putin can be credited with bring the whole nation above it. Read - They gather 75 national poverty lines, ranging from Senegal's severe $0.63 a day to Uruguay's more generous measure of just over $9. From this collection, they pick the 15 lowest (Nepal, Tajikistan and 13 sub-Saharan countries) and split the difference between them. The result is a new international poverty line of $1.25 a day. An excerpt from the Economist - http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=11409401 Thus, today RF is a far richer place than ever before.!

permalink quote Vijay

Sanjay 26 May, 2008, 02:43

Here is the link (the third picture) which shows that russians end up spending more than 50% of their income on food compared to just 16% in europe. http://www.metrogroup.de/servlet/PB/menu/1080560_l1/index.html The statistics are from eurostat.

permalink quote Sanjay

Sam 26 May, 2008, 07:15

Sanjay I do not speak German and like to read and not just look at pictures.So your link is no good to me. However if it says that Russians spend 50% of income on food it still does not prove your claims on poverty in Russia. It may show- a) That the cost of food is more expensive then other essencials. b) The Diet of the community for example Diet high on meat and fish products is more expensive then vegi diet. c) How much they prefer luxary items as compared to basic. d) the possible low income etc etc.So that is not an indicator of poverty in any way.What more it defeats your own claim that majority of Russians can not afford to feed their families:) Did you know that Russians do not usually drink water with their food but soft drinks? When I was there once visiting friends,their 5 year old asked why I was drinking a glass of water and not the Kvas that was on the table:)Bet that practice will add to their food bill too. Looking at the links you keep coming up with,It seems that you are fishing hard to come up with something showing poverty in Russia and not coming up with much. Well keep on trying to prove that Russia was better under the USSR( thats what it is all about) Honestly Sanjay, since a good number of people had actually been to Russia or even Russians I bet your posts put a smile on their face as they do on mine. By the way, you may like to know that the life expectancy for Russia has gone up by the new 2007 figure.It now stands at 61.5/73.9,Males/Females.

permalink quote Sam

Vijay 26 May, 2008, 18:41

Russia is booming: there are more '6 series' BMWs in Moscow than in any other city in the world and there is barely a Lada to be seen among the Mercedes, Audis and Range Rovers that clog its congested streets; within the next year or two, Russia will overtake Germany to become the world's biggest car market. It is not just cars. Ordinary Russians are snapping up everything from baby-food to designer bags as they splash out with their newfound wealth; average earnings have been growing by around 20 per cent a year and consumption has been following close behind. Excerpt from The Observer - http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/25/economics.russia This article is self explanatory and overshadows all talk about Human rights and shouting privileges.! However, as democracy strengthens and matures so shall individual but patriotic privileges.!

permalink quote Vijay

Regular_John 28 May, 2008, 14:43

Statistics on there own do not always tell the true story. Please do not be alarmed with the one that shows the average Russian spends 50 % of their salary on food. In the west a lot of people happily stuff their faces with cheese burgers chips and pizzas cheap fast food is the order of the day. In Russia they prefer real food meat vegetables home made cakes hours are spent on cooking really tasty meals. When I married my wife and brought her to England she spent hours in the kitchen she would not look at a big Mac let alone eat one. So yes more is spent but for the right reasons. I’m much healthier than I used to be.

permalink quote Regular_John

David 30 May, 2008, 22:46

Sanjay - After the english government has taken its slice from my small wage packet I have very little left to buy any food and from what I have seen, first hand,not read in silly reports (reports and photos are doctored, did you not know?) the situation in Rusia has become better than anywhere else in the world. england and the usa are finished - why do you think Putin got rid of the dollar?

permalink quote David

sunnymarky 31 May, 2008, 12:08

Who has been watching the BBC Jonathan Dimbleby series on New Russia? Nothing hidden there. Russians Journalists who live in fear of their lives for trying to expose the Corruption, Human rights Violations and Mafia (organised Crime)in their country. Of course there are many who will never believe any of these facts even if they have lived in the RF," I didnt see any of this awful events when I was living and working there or here so it cant be true" It takes all sorts.

permalink quote sunnymarky

Democracy Sceptic 8 June, 2008, 21:06

We are seeing a new Russian President quickly finding his feet upon the world stage in the form of State visits and global trade conferences. He is confident in the knowledge that his country’s economy is in the ascendance and he can rightly question whether or not the former giant of the global economy, the USA, can continue its former role into the future. However, he should not get too smug, for his country’s rise has much more to do with the burgeoning demand for oil / gas and its consequent profit yields, than it reflects any extraordinary or superlative performance by the country’s leadership in recent years. He should remember that Russia is still largely dependant on technologies, design and component parts imported from other states (although I concede that Russia is working hard to rectify this). He should also have in mind, that although Moscow can now boast an escalating number of millionaires and billionaires; away from that city huge swathes of other citizens exist on in frugality, disenfranchised within this new epoch. I urge him to show modesty until his government have greatly improved the lot of his humbler citizens through the greater development of its industry, agriculture and entrepreneurialism. Then it will not be necessary for him to tell of their evolution. The rest of the world will recognise it and will applaud him.

permalink quote Democracy Sceptic

Andy 10 June, 2008, 06:06

My dear americans, brits and others english-speaking folks! Please, Please, Please don't mix in your minds and words Moscow and Russia! These are two completely different animals! I'm ethnical Russian (not Muskovite) and I know what I'm talking about. I appreciate that some of you have concern about my people, but just don't be foolished by the moscow's propoganda! Real Russians in Russia is a pooriest people in the richiest country. They work very hard just like slaves in those neo-capitalistic factories only for fraction of what Muskovites have for nothing-doing. Moscow is a "Potiomkin-village" and "ancient Rom" in same place and time. So, I'm agree with those who says that Russians spends half of their income just for food. I know it is truth. My mom and brothers are living so in the richiest province of Russia - Kuban. The place where Putin and his muskovites's mafia gonna bild another "Potiomkin-village" - Sochi. There is nobody speaks about human rights of residents of this place. Those peasants who lived in their homes for about 100 years in this town of Sochi, now forced to give out their houses almost for free and to leave at the appartment-community buildins in 60-70 miles from where they used to live. And their houses all are destroing to free land for some "Olympiada's projects". So, please be wise!

permalink quote Andy

Sam 11 June, 2008, 07:12

Welcome to the world of capitalism Andy. Thats how the whole world is. In the UK,London and United Kingdom are also two different things.You cannt compare London to places like Yorkshire or Some areas in Lancashire as in Oldham and Burnley.Even the BMP(our ulta nationalist party) was able to win seats there.Unemplyment is high and poverty common place. In capitalism wealth is not equally distributed. So why do you say that Muskovites are not ethnic Russians:)

permalink quote Sam

sunnyukmark 11 June, 2008, 20:03

I think your posting was the real truth of Russia Andy , I hope others take note.Putin or his successor and the new RF "democracy" have done very little or nothing to help the overwhelming majority of the working or unemployed poor in your country. At least in most parts of the west and certainly in Western Europe and the UK those in a similar postion have a voice and are not neglected by their politicians who would do so at their peril as the previous Government in the UK did and paid the penalty. I hope ordinary hard working poor Russian people well in their efforts to be heard even with corrupt politicans and Officials making it an uphill task.

permalink quote sunnyukmark

Sevodnya_Net 11 June, 2008, 20:40

I don't think Andy meant that Muscovites are not ethnic Russians. He meant (apologies to him if I'm wrong) that although he is Russian he is not a Muscovite. The whole world, thank God, is not like what is happening in Russia as Andy describes it. I feel you would not have made that excuse during the Yeltsin years when western-inspired capitalism threatened to destroy the lives of Russians, so why is the home-grown version any better? The sad fact is that, notwithstanding the material benefits to the Russian nation and a select cross-section of society, of the revenue from energy, Russia's leaders are drawing the country in on itself under a cloud of xenophobia, centralisation, and obsessive government control. We wait to see if Medvedev's appointment will reverse this trend or whether power will simply follow Putin and his anointers to the White House. Signs are not good at the moment, but it's too early to be sure. Andy makes a very good point about the Olympics. I hope they will be a great success but they won't come without a great price in human and ecological terms.

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

Sevodnya_Net 11 June, 2008, 20:49

. and of course the reason Britain's BNP wins seats in the regions Sam mentions is because those regions have high percentages of non-whites. The "N" in BNP stands for "National" indeed, but it ought really to stand for "Nazi" because they are simply a racist outfit, pretty expert at whipping up race hatred in poor white communities. (Just in case anyone reading this is wondering that Britain's regions are somehow less "national" than the capital, as Sam - no doubt unwittingly - suggests :-) )

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

Sam 12 June, 2008, 11:39

Andy posted:-I'm ethnical Russian (not Muskovite) and I know what I'm talking about. Using the word ethnic in that sentance can only have one meaning. That is why I asked why he thinks Muskovites are not ethically Russian too. It is in the nature to blame someone else for your hardship and poverty. In The UK,First came the Asians then came the Blacks and now The Poles. In each case they were the first to be blamed for the local populations hardships in poorer communities. Not taking in account that they settled there for the very same reason that they are more likely to be poor too. Presently it is the polish plumber that is to blame:) This gives power to people like the BMP to get a foot in these community. Look for BMP seats and you will find poverty. Makes me wonder,What the right to "freely" have a "voice" can do to others with less of a voice in the same community. In Russian case the most common targets of this type of finger pointing are those from the CIS countries especially Georgians and those from the far eastern countries. Its refreshing seeing someone pointing the finger on the government for a change.We should have more of that here rather then turning to the likes of the BMP.

permalink quote Sam

DD 12 June, 2008, 15:54

What many people, and especially those who left their home country (Russia) don't mention is that Russia already established all this progress in only 10 years. Do you really think living standards of all population in Russia could/should be already as in EU?(old EU of course) It took the European countries surely more than 10 years to get where they are now, so please use some intelligence before you cowardly offend the leaders of your home country. Do never forget in what condition Russia had to start from. Everybody remembers Russia's condition when Putin took over, and sees the big progress achieved. Russia didn't need the colonial plundering of natural resources in 3rd world countries all over the world, as the US has been doing for several decades already. So please, before you blemish your native land you should better try to understand the situation. You should consider yourself lucky to have emigrated and found a good life in the west. Not many emigrated Russians found that same happyness as you did but got the same misery and even worse. About human rights, I believe we, the west, are in no position to accuse Russia, considering our recent history and present, our double standard visions, our greed which made energy and food prices rise enourmously that cause more hunger all over the world.

permalink quote DD

Sevodnya_Net 13 June, 2008, 07:03

"About human rights, I believe we, the west, are in no position to accuse Russia ." What about Russian Human Rights groups (the only truly authentic voice IMO). Do they not count? And if so should the west ignore them for fear of being branded "hypocrites"? Sounds like a selfish, navel-gazing attitude to me.

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

George.D. 13 June, 2008, 14:32

Human rights has become about one think, exerting pressure on other countries,. Human rights is used by certain western countries to punish hostile nations and to reward friendly,. when the same violations of human rights happen they will be presented differently depending if that country is a friend or a foe . This is also part of there colonialist mentality of the past, we are the superior race, we have to show those primitive Russian Slavs on how to behave, they are incapable of doing it themselves. Russia has to create her own human rights organizations not ones that are funded from abroad but NGOS that are funded from with in Russia. Human rights violations happen in every country, in Russia even more, taking into account her size and multi ethnicity and the fact that only recently came out from self isolation and Communism But Russia has to deal with human rights violations inside Russia with her own resources, and not foreign, especially the ones that don't have the interest or Russia at heart. Those that go around the world to bomb other nations , maybe should stick there heads out there behinds and look at human rights in there own countries before passing judgments on others.

permalink quote George.D.

DD 13 June, 2008, 15:55

to Sevodnya: The west should first start to apology for all the unpunished injustice they've brought upon many people in many countries, especially in 3rd world countries! Besides that the west should respect ALL the human rights, EVERYWHERE, not being selective (see Palestine,Serbia,.) if they want to be taken serious in these matters!! As an intelligent person I'm sure you wouldn't listen to a thief when he tells you people shouldn't steal.

permalink quote DD

DD 13 June, 2008, 16:03

About human right groups in Russia, here in Belgium as in all over the world there are human rights groups who make it in the news once in a while, and that's all!! Further nothing changes. Should Russia now also complain to Belgium about these peoples complains? There shouldn't be double faces. If you accuse one for violating human rights, you should surely and firstly be respecting them for your own!!

permalink quote DD

Sevodnya_Net 15 June, 2008, 09:58

DD "As an intelligent person I'm sure you wouldn't listen to a thief when he tells you people shouldn't steal." Think about that statement for a couple of nanoseconds. This thief might be hypocritical, but it doesn't make him any less correct. (If the thief tells me his goods are honestly got then that's a different matter!)

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

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