Independence of unrecognised states: who should decide if they are entitled to sovereignty?, page 8


Captain Birdseye 9 December, 2008, 15:14	Having a Russian Wife,I used to enjoy watching RT TV,but now it is so blatantly propoganda and anti-west it reminds me of old Soviet days. Do the Producers think that the viewers are too naive to see through this? permalink quote 0 Captain Birdseye
joseph 5 January, 2009, 17:49	Well in our so called democracy,it is the people who decided which alliegence the people want to have.well thats how i thinks it works.could be wrong. permalink quote 0 joseph
lime 6 January, 2009, 14:50	For me its actually Gaza and the Palestinians. Would there be any specific adverse consequences if Israel would just recognize the West-Bank as a sovereign Palestinian republic (as it has already functioning legislative and executive bodies with an elected president, pull out its Jewish settlers and giving this state a part of Eastern Jerusalem as its capital. I'm pretty sure all of Gaza would try to join this new free state, thereby pulling out the carpet under HAMAS's feet and returning peace and security for the people in this part of the world. permalink quote 0 lime
David 17 January, 2009, 21:05	According to history of Georgia, Abkhaia and Ossetia has always been mentioned as part of Georgia until 1921 Russia's occupation of Georgia when Kremlin authorities decided to create Autonomic Republics of Ossetia, Abkhazia and Adjaa artificially and started implementation of strong Russian policies which included installation of all people around USSR such as Armenian, Russian, Turkish and Azerbaijani citizens, estabilishing Russian language as the primary and exhortation of Russian passports over the population. Their influence and occupation over the regions grew faster and faster until they got to the point where ethnic Georgian population became actually less than those non-Georgian. Thus these people, can be independent if they willing to, but not on expenses of Georgian soil and freedom. These regions have always belonged to Georgian and only Georgian ethnicity (including Abkhazian and Ossetian) and they have to stay so. permalink quote 0 David
jsmith 19 January, 2009, 06:27	to David: you wrongly write:"These regions have always belonged to Georgian and only Georgian ethnicity (including Abkhazian and Ossetian" If Abkhazian and Ossetian ethnicity are the same as Georgian, then why do Abkhazians and Ossetians have a different language, and use a different system of writing? By defenition, people of the same ethnicity share the same language, not different languages, as you wrongly state. permalink quote 0 jsmith
jsmith 19 January, 2009, 07:22	to Matthias So does that mean that a referendum with the return of ethnic cleansed minorities in kosovo will make a good solution also? The best part of the 200,000 displaced people in Serbia are displaced Serbs from Kosovo. Again, the fact that the majority of people in Kosovo are albanians, serves as no reason for it's recognition btw I just joined this discussion, not sure of your opinions, so I'm not meant to contradict you, just making a point that I felt needs to be made. permalink quote 0 jsmith
jsmith 19 January, 2009, 10:34	to Captain Birdseye you write:"Having a Russian Wife,I used to enjoy watching RT TV,but now it is so blatantly propoganda and anti-west it reminds me of old Soviet days. Do the Producers think that the viewers are too naive to see through this?" Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to express it, even on Russia today,. which you say "reminds you of old soviet days". Only, in old soviet days, you wouldn't have been allowed to say this!! Doesn't this prove you wrong? Likewise, people can see through the pro-western propaganda of the western media. permalink quote 0 jsmith
jsmith 19 January, 2009, 11:41	to GeorgeD. you wrote:"I live in Quebec Canada, there was a referendum a few years back were the people of Quebec chose to remain part of Canada" how many of the people who voted in this referendum are french speakers? Also, any canadian can move to quebec unrestricted, and register to vote there, also, in the run up to this referendum, the government speed up naturalization applications (deliberately) for those likely to vote to remain with canada(english speakers.) Also, if this vote was passed, there was no legal precedent for seperation in this referendum, it was merely a plebescite. permalink quote 0 jsmith
Sam 19 January, 2009, 18:01	It seems to me that people like going back in history to the point that supports their argument. Lets cover the brief history of The Ossetian people Ossetia-Alania as it is historically known was settled by nomads the Alanis, the ancestors of the present day Ossetians in the 7th centary.By 9th century the kingdom of Alanis converted to Christianity and became a powerful state. It was devastated by the Ottoman empires and the Khanate of Crimea pushing the kingdom of Alanis to alliance with Russia entering the empire in 1774. The Ossetians have a different culture and language from its neighbours. Georgia entered the Russian Empire in 1801. Abhkazia 9th-6th century BC was part of the Kingdom of Colchis which consisted of present day Abhkazia and Georgia.Ossetia not included. In my opinion that does not mean Georgia owns them. It was then taken over by Egrisi (Greek) in 63bc Romans took over in 1st century AD. Then Byzantine empire till the 9th century when it united with Georgia region of imereti and became known as the Kingdom of Abkhazia. In 1001 the King Bagrat III unified the whole area to became the first king of unified Georgia.Abkhazia entered Russian empire in 1864. My point is that some people point to history as the reason why these Territories are Georgian. Depends from which point you chose to recall history. Before there was the Unified kingdom of Georgia, there was a kingdom of Abkhazia which included parts of Georgia so I see that Abkhazia has a greater claim on Georgia then the other way around. In the case of the Ossetians they too had a kingdom of their own. They all including Georgia became part of the Russian empire. What made the Georgians the dominant race there? Just because they took part in these kingdoms does not mean they own the lands. If we go by that reason then both the Abkhazians and Ossetians can also claim the rest of Georgia. What Right have they to leave Georgia you may ask? About the same right for Georgia to leave the Russian empire. Why stop there, lets go even further back in history, The modern man migrated out of Africa displacing the humanoids already living in Europe and asia.Hey I think the African based on history have the right to claim the whole of the world after all they were the first in Europe don’t you think? So give it a rest. The Ossetians and Abkhazians have every right to be independent based on history, culture and the will of the population. permalink quote 0 Sam

Captain Birdseye 9 December, 2008, 15:14

Having a Russian Wife,I used to enjoy watching RT TV,but now it is so blatantly propoganda and anti-west it reminds me of old Soviet days. Do the Producers think that the viewers are too naive to see through this?

permalink quote Captain Birdseye

joseph 5 January, 2009, 17:49

Well in our so called democracy,it is the people who decided which alliegence the people want to have.well thats how i thinks it works.could be wrong.

permalink quote joseph

lime 6 January, 2009, 14:50

For me its actually Gaza and the Palestinians. Would there be any specific adverse consequences if Israel would just recognize the West-Bank as a sovereign Palestinian republic (as it has already functioning legislative and executive bodies with an elected president, pull out its Jewish settlers and giving this state a part of Eastern Jerusalem as its capital. I'm pretty sure all of Gaza would try to join this new free state, thereby pulling out the carpet under HAMAS's feet and returning peace and security for the people in this part of the world.

permalink quote lime

David 17 January, 2009, 21:05

According to history of Georgia, Abkhaia and Ossetia has always been mentioned as part of Georgia until 1921 Russia's occupation of Georgia when Kremlin authorities decided to create Autonomic Republics of Ossetia, Abkhazia and Adjaa artificially and started implementation of strong Russian policies which included installation of all people around USSR such as Armenian, Russian, Turkish and Azerbaijani citizens, estabilishing Russian language as the primary and exhortation of Russian passports over the population. Their influence and occupation over the regions grew faster and faster until they got to the point where ethnic Georgian population became actually less than those non-Georgian. Thus these people, can be independent if they willing to, but not on expenses of Georgian soil and freedom. These regions have always belonged to Georgian and only Georgian ethnicity (including Abkhazian and Ossetian) and they have to stay so.

permalink quote David

jsmith 19 January, 2009, 06:27

to David: you wrongly write:"These regions have always belonged to Georgian and only Georgian ethnicity (including Abkhazian and Ossetian" If Abkhazian and Ossetian ethnicity are the same as Georgian, then why do Abkhazians and Ossetians have a different language, and use a different system of writing? By defenition, people of the same ethnicity share the same language, not different languages, as you wrongly state.

permalink quote jsmith

jsmith 19 January, 2009, 07:22

to Matthias So does that mean that a referendum with the return of ethnic cleansed minorities in kosovo will make a good solution also? The best part of the 200,000 displaced people in Serbia are displaced Serbs from Kosovo. Again, the fact that the majority of people in Kosovo are albanians, serves as no reason for it's recognition btw I just joined this discussion, not sure of your opinions, so I'm not meant to contradict you, just making a point that I felt needs to be made.

permalink quote jsmith

jsmith 19 January, 2009, 10:34

to Captain Birdseye you write:"Having a Russian Wife,I used to enjoy watching RT TV,but now it is so blatantly propoganda and anti-west it reminds me of old Soviet days. Do the Producers think that the viewers are too naive to see through this?" Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to express it, even on Russia today,. which you say "reminds you of old soviet days". Only, in old soviet days, you wouldn't have been allowed to say this!! Doesn't this prove you wrong? Likewise, people can see through the pro-western propaganda of the western media.

permalink quote jsmith

jsmith 19 January, 2009, 11:41

to GeorgeD. you wrote:"I live in Quebec Canada, there was a referendum a few years back were the people of Quebec chose to remain part of Canada" how many of the people who voted in this referendum are french speakers? Also, any canadian can move to quebec unrestricted, and register to vote there, also, in the run up to this referendum, the government speed up naturalization applications (deliberately) for those likely to vote to remain with canada(english speakers.) Also, if this vote was passed, there was no legal precedent for seperation in this referendum, it was merely a plebescite.

permalink quote jsmith

Sam 19 January, 2009, 18:01

It seems to me that people like going back in history to the point that supports their argument. Lets cover the brief history of The Ossetian people Ossetia-Alania as it is historically known was settled by nomads the Alanis, the ancestors of the present day Ossetians in the 7th centary.By 9th century the kingdom of Alanis converted to Christianity and became a powerful state. It was devastated by the Ottoman empires and the Khanate of Crimea pushing the kingdom of Alanis to alliance with Russia entering the empire in 1774. The Ossetians have a different culture and language from its neighbours. Georgia entered the Russian Empire in 1801. Abhkazia 9th-6th century BC was part of the Kingdom of Colchis which consisted of present day Abhkazia and Georgia.Ossetia not included. In my opinion that does not mean Georgia owns them. It was then taken over by Egrisi (Greek) in 63bc Romans took over in 1st century AD. Then Byzantine empire till the 9th century when it united with Georgia region of imereti and became known as the Kingdom of Abkhazia. In 1001 the King Bagrat III unified the whole area to became the first king of unified Georgia.Abkhazia entered Russian empire in 1864. My point is that some people point to history as the reason why these Territories are Georgian. Depends from which point you chose to recall history. Before there was the Unified kingdom of Georgia, there was a kingdom of Abkhazia which included parts of Georgia so I see that Abkhazia has a greater claim on Georgia then the other way around. In the case of the Ossetians they too had a kingdom of their own. They all including Georgia became part of the Russian empire. What made the Georgians the dominant race there? Just because they took part in these kingdoms does not mean they own the lands. If we go by that reason then both the Abkhazians and Ossetians can also claim the rest of Georgia. What Right have they to leave Georgia you may ask? About the same right for Georgia to leave the Russian empire. Why stop there, lets go even further back in history, The modern man migrated out of Africa displacing the humanoids already living in Europe and asia.Hey I think the African based on history have the right to claim the whole of the world after all they were the first in Europe don’t you think? So give it a rest. The Ossetians and Abkhazians have every right to be independent based on history, culture and the will of the population.

permalink quote Sam

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