Is this really the end of the gas dispute? Does Ukraine play fair?, page 2


russ 22 January, 2009, 19:32	Russias economy may have collapsed and gone bankrupt in 1998 but when it comes to strategic issues Moscow is still a pro. Russia has huge advantages still in central asia, caucasus, eastern europe because of the size of its territory. Now with the US economy in completely disarray all Russia needs to do is at least keep its economy stable and its strategies going and the US is finished. The biggest test/battle for Putin, Medvedev and the gang is right now. I think the world is in a turning point right now. permalink quote 0 russ
Margaret 23 January, 2009, 03:24	From Bianca Susak: "And, not to forget, US Treasury Bonds will come for auction, and China is expected to be the buyer of the debt. However, while China will for sure buy some, the extent of their investment may be much lower." I think that will be true. There is much speculation on some financial forums that the Federal Reserve will soon "print" money in order to buy US Treasuries in order to keep the market active. The juggler Bernanke has to keep all those knives in the air and we in the audience are waiting with bated breath for him to drop a couple. Also, the best seats in the house are the ones farthest from the stage . . . permalink quote 0 Margaret
grifo 23 January, 2009, 18:52	To russ. Russia does not have any veto power on NATO business. Russia has an observer at NATO, just because NATO want to be kind. NATO is not a business where Russia can speak in. Better you study more, before posting idiocies. permalink quote 0 grifo
Johnny 24 January, 2009, 12:50	Ha! I’m starting to see how this all works, Euro commission just announced pipeline project through Turkey, which will flow up through all those countries that are were affected by the big freeze (gas crisis). See the plan, its brilliant! Get the stupid Ukraine leadership to freeze those countries so they all agree to build a pipeline, and then bring it through Turkey. What they not showing on the TV schematic, is where Iraq is on that map, so sneaky! I bet this is now an oil AND gas pipeline... ha ha They just got all these stupid countries to pay for Europe’s oil pipe from Iraq… ha ha Damn Ukraine is stupid! Ukraine just committed suicide! permalink quote 0 Johnny
Sam 25 January, 2009, 10:15	To grifo You sound like NATO is helping out Russia by giving it an observer position. First of all Russia does not have an observer position in NATO. There is a Partnership for peace programme between NATO and Russia. That is not an Observer position. You like it or not, NATO needs Russia a hell of a lot more then Russian needs NATO. Can you please list any advantage Russia can get from NATO? Russia sees NATO as a treat to its security as exemplified by the AMS in Poland and Radar in the Czech Republic crisis. As well as all the NATO bases around her borders, and Russian objections of Georgia and Ukraine joining NATO that is expanding to her southern borders. NATO needs Russia as an agreed transit route of supply to its wars in Afghanistan’s also needs Russian to not make it a hell of a lot harder for them. Imagine Russia supplying anti aircraft and better weapons to the taliban, just like the USA did in the soviet invasion of afghan in the 80s.A good example of what can happen is when Russian anti tank weapons ended up in the hands of Hizbula during the Israeli invasion of 2006. permalink quote 0 Sam
Marzipan6 26 January, 2009, 05:35	If Russia wants to join the real world, then sooner or later it will have to acknowledge several unpalatable realities, if not to others then at least to itself. These are: (1) Russia is a country, not an empire. It has absolutely no business trying to dictate to anyone, including to those of its neighbours that it at one time used to dominate under the Tsarist and Soviet empires, which alliances and other international organizations they should or should not be part of. (2) Its neighbours feel the need to be part of Western economic groupings because of the economic devastation that Russia brought to them; they feel the need to be part of Western political groupings because of oppressive political domination that Russia has exercised over them; and they feel the need to be part of Western security alliances because of death, destruction and misery which Russian conquest has repeatedly brought to them. (3) Russia’s neighbours feel no more enthusiasm for Western conspiracies, real or imagined, than they have felt over past Russian conspiracies to crush their freedom, and the latter, unfortunately, has been anything but imaginary. Moscow and its apologists would do well to get the paranoid CIA, NATO, EU, Freemasons’, matchbox and candlestick makers’, etc. etc. conspiracy theories, which figure so prominently in their reasonings, right out of their head. Once Russia seeks genuine reconciliation with its neighbours and lives in a way that proves that it means it, it will find that its neighbours have just as little enthusiasm to be part of Western dreams of empire as they have of playing along with Russia’s imperial fantasies. They just want to be left alone and live their own life in peace. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6
David 27 January, 2009, 21:21	Hi Marzipan6: Isn't funny how in your comment (point 1) echoes very strong comments have made about England and the USA either directly or indirectly. I notice that your comments have been directly angered (as usual) toward Russia. This matter is not the making of Russia/Gazprom. It has been the making of Ukraine, and is not the first time. England and the USA are but countries. They are not empires nor are they rulers of Russia. These countries must keep to themselves, mind their own business and not dictate to others. They must also pull out of countries they rule/occupy e.g. Falklands, Cuba, Northen Ireland, Hawaii and the list goes on. permalink quote 0 David
Svetlana 28 January, 2009, 12:33	Marzipan 6, RF is an Empire, which consists of many colonies on its territory. Almost every ethnicity has own territory – Tatarstan, Russia, Bashkortostan, Dagestan, Udmurtia etc. But RF is no longer superpower it was in its Soviet past. Many Empires of the past disintegrated fully or partially (UK, Turkey, Austro-Hungarian, France, USSR). Some (France, UK, Portugal) lost its colonies on other continents and this is the easiest. Some continental Empires went through wars (Germany, Turkey, and Austro-Hungarian, Russian) – more painful process. Anyway, Estonia is independent and well off under umbrella of EU and NATO+USA. No more worries ;) Also want to mention that many people still put all 3 Baltic countries in 1 pot. But they are different. And there is a progress in government policies towards cooperation with RF. Estonia scores the best of all in this regard, Latvia and Lithuania the worst. According to the recent polls 25-30% of Estonians (ethnic too) are for cooperation with RF. In RF polls show that only 4% of respondents consider Baltics as friendly to RF nations and the rest cannot for sure explain why not. The history of Baltic countries is somewhat on periphery in RF, there is no interest to it. They publish very emotional, defensive books, aiming to argue what Baltic historians said. But this is not a history. Better cooperation of historians between RF and Baltics is necessary. State pressure on historians in Baltic countries (Latvia, Lithuania) is higher than in RF. In RF there is a preferential support of certain historians… State policy can be reflected in school program. And Estonia is different in this regard. They have got experimental history textbook with different documents and opinions of politicians, scientists, historians. Pupils must choose one according their point of view. Such a textbook would be a great idea for RF too. (It was small part of a lecture of Russian historian Yelena Zubkova “Stalin’s project in Baltics”. She published her book with the same title in 2008. And she was in Latvia and Estonia last year). permalink quote 0 Svetlana
fred 29 January, 2009, 10:18	svetlana ... don't get confused between what "Governement" want and what "Peoples" want ... very oftenly it differ quite a lot ... as for baltics : Yes , most ones having mouth full of words about them wouldn't be able to say which one is which one ... ;-) as a matter of fact , E.U. SHOULD HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED THEM before a solution to ethnic russians living was found ... to my regrets , this shame won't wash so easilly ! Human rights and democracy ? how can we explain we accept that some members treat a big chunk of their own population as third class citizens ... just a shame ! therefor what we need is peoples to know each others = no more fears ! permalink quote 0 fred
Svetlana 30 January, 2009, 16:06	I agree, Fred Governments consist of politicians. They asked USSR to join their Baltic countries to it. Other politicians committed mass terror in their country and abroad. And now Stalin is a great manager for them. What about people? They always want only one thing – simply live in peace. But they can be easily manipulated by the same politicians…. I think EU membership is a blessing for Eastern European and Baltic countries: less USA influence, than it could have been otherwise. And as far as I know, bad treatment of Russian speaking population is not in Estonia. Meanwhile, Estonia opens its Embassy in Belorussia to broaden cooperation between 2 countries. So, the course is on East?! :) permalink quote 0 Svetlana
joe 30 January, 2009, 19:28	This RT News is a Putin tool to misinform the uninformed of their misinformation or their out look and their message and view . permalink quote 0 joe
DD 2 February, 2009, 17:44	And that's why Joe, you should not distract yourself from watching Fox news, where you will receive the daily dose of true & unbiased news reports!! permalink quote 0 DD

russ 22 January, 2009, 19:32

Russias economy may have collapsed and gone bankrupt in 1998 but when it comes to strategic issues Moscow is still a pro. Russia has huge advantages still in central asia, caucasus, eastern europe because of the size of its territory. Now with the US economy in completely disarray all Russia needs to do is at least keep its economy stable and its strategies going and the US is finished. The biggest test/battle for Putin, Medvedev and the gang is right now. I think the world is in a turning point right now.

permalink quote russ

Margaret 23 January, 2009, 03:24

From Bianca Susak: "And, not to forget, US Treasury Bonds will come for auction, and China is expected to be the buyer of the debt. However, while China will for sure buy some, the extent of their investment may be much lower." I think that will be true. There is much speculation on some financial forums that the Federal Reserve will soon "print" money in order to buy US Treasuries in order to keep the market active. The juggler Bernanke has to keep all those knives in the air and we in the audience are waiting with bated breath for him to drop a couple. Also, the best seats in the house are the ones farthest from the stage . . .

permalink quote Margaret

grifo 23 January, 2009, 18:52

To russ. Russia does not have any veto power on NATO business. Russia has an observer at NATO, just because NATO want to be kind. NATO is not a business where Russia can speak in. Better you study more, before posting idiocies.

permalink quote grifo

Johnny 24 January, 2009, 12:50

Ha! I’m starting to see how this all works, Euro commission just announced pipeline project through Turkey, which will flow up through all those countries that are were affected by the big freeze (gas crisis). See the plan, its brilliant! Get the stupid Ukraine leadership to freeze those countries so they all agree to build a pipeline, and then bring it through Turkey. What they not showing on the TV schematic, is where Iraq is on that map, so sneaky! I bet this is now an oil AND gas pipeline... ha ha They just got all these stupid countries to pay for Europe’s oil pipe from Iraq… ha ha Damn Ukraine is stupid! Ukraine just committed suicide!

permalink quote Johnny

Sam 25 January, 2009, 10:15

To grifo You sound like NATO is helping out Russia by giving it an observer position. First of all Russia does not have an observer position in NATO. There is a Partnership for peace programme between NATO and Russia. That is not an Observer position. You like it or not, NATO needs Russia a hell of a lot more then Russian needs NATO. Can you please list any advantage Russia can get from NATO? Russia sees NATO as a treat to its security as exemplified by the AMS in Poland and Radar in the Czech Republic crisis. As well as all the NATO bases around her borders, and Russian objections of Georgia and Ukraine joining NATO that is expanding to her southern borders. NATO needs Russia as an agreed transit route of supply to its wars in Afghanistan’s also needs Russian to not make it a hell of a lot harder for them. Imagine Russia supplying anti aircraft and better weapons to the taliban, just like the USA did in the soviet invasion of afghan in the 80s.A good example of what can happen is when Russian anti tank weapons ended up in the hands of Hizbula during the Israeli invasion of 2006.

permalink quote Sam

Marzipan6 26 January, 2009, 05:35

If Russia wants to join the real world, then sooner or later it will have to acknowledge several unpalatable realities, if not to others then at least to itself. These are: (1) Russia is a country, not an empire. It has absolutely no business trying to dictate to anyone, including to those of its neighbours that it at one time used to dominate under the Tsarist and Soviet empires, which alliances and other international organizations they should or should not be part of. (2) Its neighbours feel the need to be part of Western economic groupings because of the economic devastation that Russia brought to them; they feel the need to be part of Western political groupings because of oppressive political domination that Russia has exercised over them; and they feel the need to be part of Western security alliances because of death, destruction and misery which Russian conquest has repeatedly brought to them. (3) Russia’s neighbours feel no more enthusiasm for Western conspiracies, real or imagined, than they have felt over past Russian conspiracies to crush their freedom, and the latter, unfortunately, has been anything but imaginary. Moscow and its apologists would do well to get the paranoid CIA, NATO, EU, Freemasons’, matchbox and candlestick makers’, etc. etc. conspiracy theories, which figure so prominently in their reasonings, right out of their head. Once Russia seeks genuine reconciliation with its neighbours and lives in a way that proves that it means it, it will find that its neighbours have just as little enthusiasm to be part of Western dreams of empire as they have of playing along with Russia’s imperial fantasies. They just want to be left alone and live their own life in peace.

permalink quote Marzipan6

David 27 January, 2009, 21:21

Hi Marzipan6: Isn't funny how in your comment (point 1) echoes very strong comments have made about England and the USA either directly or indirectly. I notice that your comments have been directly angered (as usual) toward Russia. This matter is not the making of Russia/Gazprom. It has been the making of Ukraine, and is not the first time. England and the USA are but countries. They are not empires nor are they rulers of Russia. These countries must keep to themselves, mind their own business and not dictate to others. They must also pull out of countries they rule/occupy e.g. Falklands, Cuba, Northen Ireland, Hawaii and the list goes on.

permalink quote David

Svetlana 28 January, 2009, 12:33

Marzipan 6, RF is an Empire, which consists of many colonies on its territory. Almost every ethnicity has own territory – Tatarstan, Russia, Bashkortostan, Dagestan, Udmurtia etc. But RF is no longer superpower it was in its Soviet past. Many Empires of the past disintegrated fully or partially (UK, Turkey, Austro-Hungarian, France, USSR). Some (France, UK, Portugal) lost its colonies on other continents and this is the easiest. Some continental Empires went through wars (Germany, Turkey, and Austro-Hungarian, Russian) – more painful process. Anyway, Estonia is independent and well off under umbrella of EU and NATO+USA. No more worries ;) Also want to mention that many people still put all 3 Baltic countries in 1 pot. But they are different. And there is a progress in government policies towards cooperation with RF. Estonia scores the best of all in this regard, Latvia and Lithuania the worst. According to the recent polls 25-30% of Estonians (ethnic too) are for cooperation with RF. In RF polls show that only 4% of respondents consider Baltics as friendly to RF nations and the rest cannot for sure explain why not. The history of Baltic countries is somewhat on periphery in RF, there is no interest to it. They publish very emotional, defensive books, aiming to argue what Baltic historians said. But this is not a history. Better cooperation of historians between RF and Baltics is necessary. State pressure on historians in Baltic countries (Latvia, Lithuania) is higher than in RF. In RF there is a preferential support of certain historians… State policy can be reflected in school program. And Estonia is different in this regard. They have got experimental history textbook with different documents and opinions of politicians, scientists, historians. Pupils must choose one according their point of view. Such a textbook would be a great idea for RF too. (It was small part of a lecture of Russian historian Yelena Zubkova “Stalin’s project in Baltics”. She published her book with the same title in 2008. And she was in Latvia and Estonia last year).

permalink quote Svetlana

fred 29 January, 2009, 10:18

svetlana ... don't get confused between what "Governement" want and what "Peoples" want ... very oftenly it differ quite a lot ... as for baltics : Yes , most ones having mouth full of words about them wouldn't be able to say which one is which one ... ;-) as a matter of fact , E.U. SHOULD HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED THEM before a solution to ethnic russians living was found ... to my regrets , this shame won't wash so easilly ! Human rights and democracy ? how can we explain we accept that some members treat a big chunk of their own population as third class citizens ... just a shame ! therefor what we need is peoples to know each others = no more fears !

permalink quote fred

Svetlana 30 January, 2009, 16:06

I agree, Fred Governments consist of politicians. They asked USSR to join their Baltic countries to it. Other politicians committed mass terror in their country and abroad. And now Stalin is a great manager for them. What about people? They always want only one thing – simply live in peace. But they can be easily manipulated by the same politicians…. I think EU membership is a blessing for Eastern European and Baltic countries: less USA influence, than it could have been otherwise. And as far as I know, bad treatment of Russian speaking population is not in Estonia. Meanwhile, Estonia opens its Embassy in Belorussia to broaden cooperation between 2 countries. So, the course is on East?! :)

permalink quote Svetlana

joe 30 January, 2009, 19:28

This RT News is a Putin tool to misinform the uninformed of their misinformation or their out look and their message and view .

permalink quote joe

DD 2 February, 2009, 17:44

And that's why Joe, you should not distract yourself from watching Fox news, where you will receive the daily dose of true & unbiased news reports!!

permalink quote DD

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