Kosovo has declared independence. So what happens now?, page 8


SrpskiCrnogorac 30 January, 2008, 16:51	The question alone is already a provocation. I hope the Russian´s are aware of it, that the real target is Russia, and that Kosovo serves only as a precedent. I want to remind you on the recent statement of U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Matthew Bryza, who hinted to the possibility, that Moscow´s enemies could recognize separatits within Russia. It´s all about destroying Russia. In this sense, I expect from Russia full military support in our both interests. It´s still better for you to fight now on the Balkans, than on your own territory in a foreseeable future. permalink quote 0 SrpskiCrnogorac
Jadranka 30 January, 2008, 20:29	If you watch or read CNN news, you can see who is favourite West candidate for Serbian president - it's Mr Tadic, but we will see soon who will be the president of Serbia and what will be with Kosovo and Metohija. Of course, in my opinion, there's no doubt - Kosovo and Metohija shouldn't be independent because it's historical part of Serbia and nucleus of Orthodox. Frederik, I agree with you at all, it's obvious that you know history of Serbia, Kosovo and Bosnia better than BosnianPasa. And message for him - you are a Moslim like my mother (born in old Bosnian town Travnik).that means, YOUR ROOTS ARE SERBIAN, BUT RELIGION IS ISLAM. "The Turks did come over and they brought a great religion to the Balkans !" - your words are answer on this problem. Yes, the Turks DID IT (to Serbian people)!!! And let be put DOT (.)on this theme! Regards from Serbia. permalink quote 0 Jadranka
Gazza 30 January, 2008, 22:47	Daniel January 30, 2008, 02:45 "Slobodan was a brutal dictator, the whole Kosovo crisis was his fault to begin with, because it was he who stripped Kosovo of its autonomy in the 1980s" True, but why did he do it? He did it because the local Albanian government was discriminating against the Serb minority, and ignoring the escalating Albanian nationalist violence. The Albanians misused the responsibility, so it was taken away from them. I see nothing wrong with that. P.S I dont see that Milosevic was a brutal dictator. For a start, he won his election aganist Draskovic in a fair manner. As for brutality, its unfair to Milosevic the sole scape-goat because his nation was being torn apart by inter-ethnic strife and minority nationalist scheming. If we want to see the main reasons for conflict, look elsewhere. The proto-fascist HDZ in Croatia and their blantant jew/serb hating rabid nationalism was responsible for starting the Croatian war, while the fundamentalist Izetbegovic with his desire for Muslim domination and Sharia law was the prime mover in the Bosnian conflict. Above all, it was the treacherous behaviour of the Germans, British and Americans that gave the various seperatist factions the diplomatic cover for their subversion. Publicaly declaring their preference for Yugoslav unity and diplomacy, they undermined Belgrade at every opportunity and secretly encouraged the seperatists. They trampled all over the secession negotiations by unilateraly declaring recognition of Croatian/Bosnian independance, thus ruining any hope of a peaceful breakaway. They deliberately formented war in Yugoslavia and undermined Serbia as part of a grand geopolitical power-play. Smash Yugoslavia into pieces, humiliate the Russians who were powerless to help federal Yugoslavia, force a settlement along the lines of US/NATO diktat, then absorb the chunks of territory into the Euro/Atlantic power structure. Promise the locals independance to gain their loyalty, and then slowly strip them of that independance via the corrosive influence of the EU's ongoing centralisation of power. Breaking up Yugoslavia was not enough however. Buoyed by their success, the Great Powers then moved against Serbia itself, motivated by a desire to bring to heel the Serbs, who had committed the great crime of defying the West (and were seen as being Communists). By secretly encouraging Albanian terrorists to destabilise Kosovo and force a Serb security crackdown, the West politicised the inevitable civilian casulaties inherent in any insurgency/counter-insurgency, then after failed "peace taks" at Ramboiullet (a setup from the outset) they used this to justify the long-planned attacks. Having lost control of Kosovo, and with the economic embargos biting deep, it was only a matter of time before the Belgrade government fell, only to be replaced with servile pro-Western sycophants who knew how to read the writing on the walls and how to take orders. In short, what the Nazis' could not achieve by force in the 40's, the NATO Hawks, EU Beaurecrats and corporate-controlled main-stream media acheived in the 90's by subversion, dishonesty, bribery, propaganda, bullying and good old-fashioned bomb-sight diplomacy. permalink quote 0 Gazza
Daniel 30 January, 2008, 22:57	I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the Albanians had the right for self-determination as per the frm Yugoslavia Constitution. As for Serbia and the EU, it will become harder for them not to engage with the EU as pretty soon it'll be surrounded by EU nations. Croatia will join within 2 years, Macedonia in about 5, and negotiations with Albania and Montenegro have begun. permalink quote 0 Daniel
Gazza 31 January, 2008, 07:13	Daniel January 31, 2008, 01:57 I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the Albanians had the right for self-determination as per the frm Yugoslavia Constitution. That would probably be because the Albanian minorities had no such right. Albanians already have a homeland (a dysfunctional and ramshackle blight on the eastern adriatic coast) and Kosovo was not a republic of FSRY but just a constituent province of Serbia. In this respect they are no different from the Roma. Typical Albanian misinformation. permalink quote 0 Gazza
Sevodnya_Net 31 January, 2008, 13:03	"Albanians already have a homeland (a dysfunctional and ramshackle blight on the eastern adriatic coast) " You know when I read statements like that I really begin to understand a bit better why, sad though it might be for many, Kosovan independence is being pushed through. This thread in general tragically illustrates the bitterness and hatred (on all sides) in the Balkans. permalink quote 0 Sevodnya_Net
Gazza 31 January, 2008, 21:49	Sevodnya_Net January 31, 2008, 16:03 "Albanians already have a homeland (a dysfunctional and ramshackle blight on the eastern adriatic coast) " "You know when I read statements like that I really begin to understand a bit better why, sad though it might be for many, Kosovan independence is being pushed through" Interesting. you don't seem to be deny that Albania is a dysfunctional shabby slum. Its my personal experience that Albanians have the anti-Midas touch. Every they get their hands on turns to crap. permalink quote 0 Gazza
SrpskiCrnogorac 31 January, 2008, 21:54	"I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the Albanians had the right for self-determination as per the frm Yugoslavia Constitution." maybe you want to learn a bit about that topic. Kosovo’s Status in Global Comparative Context http://www.diplomacy.bg.ac.yu/mp1122.htm#1 permalink quote 0 SrpskiCrnogorac
Daniel 1 February, 2008, 12:04	SrpskiCrnogorac: thanks for the article, i enjoyed reading it. The whole question of "self-determination" in quite a puzzling and contradicting one. There needs to be a comprimise. I'm not saying that Kosovo should or shouldn't be "independent", but it shouldn't be disregarded or treated with contempt lets not forget that thousands of people died in the Yugoslav conflicts, not to mention horrific accounts of human right abuses that occured in Kosovo and if Slobodan hadn't been kicked out in the Bulldozer Revolution, then who knows what would have happened! permalink quote 0 Daniel
SrpskiCrnogorac 1 February, 2008, 12:51	You are welcome, Daniel. I agree, a compromise must be found. That´s what we are saying all the time. ".not to mention horrific accounts of human right abuses that occured in Kosovo." That´s the problem with war time propaganda. It´s easy to spread it, but difficult to correct it. Allow me to recommend you two further readings: Faulty Justifications and Ominous Prospects NATO’s “Victory” in Kosovo http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa357.pdf and: 1086. What about what General Naumann told us when he was here two weeks ago? He said that he believed as the Chairman of the Committee that Milosevic, despite a bit of to-ing and fro-ing around the edges, had honoured the October Agreement by removing his troops from Kosovo and then the void was filled by the KLA going in and committing atrocities and abuses against the Serbs which then left Milosevic in the precarious position of either sitting back and allowing that to continue or to react. The suggestion he was putting forward was that the KLA manufactured the final NATO involvement there by taking that line when they did. If that was the case, did no-one see that coming? (Lord Gilbert) I think certain people were spoiling for a fight in NATO at that time, ***. If you ask my personal view, I think the terms put to Milosevic at Rambouillet were absolutely intolerable; how could he possibly accept them; it was quite deliberate. . 1087. Was the conflict avoidable? (Lord Gilbert) Chairman, yes, I suppose the answer has to be that, but on what terms is very difficult to say. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmdfence/347/0062005.htm You need to have in mind, that if there would have been such large scale human right abuses, as presented by western nmedia, then Serbia would have to give up Kosovo in accordance with international law. But since this is not the case, the West now has a problem to justify its stance. permalink quote 0 SrpskiCrnogorac
Sanjay 1 February, 2008, 16:46	Should Kosovo be independent Should new-england be indepdendent. Should muslim majority areas like bradford and west-london secede from UK establishing their own Caliphate. The fact is, it is jungle law in Europe. Might is right. And the europeans have descended into a position where they have become a colony of anglo-americans. Now what are the Strategic Objectives behind Europe. * Pleasing Turkey and giving it a greater foothold in Europe at the expense of Europeans * Appeasing international terrorists who will see independent kosovo as a tremendous psychological victory. * Humiliating Serbia and further cutting it to size. * Humiliating Russia and telling international community that Russia is powerless in europe to defend and protect its allies and european interests. * Creating lot of bad-blood between europe and Russia to keep them weak and divided. * Creating an open wound in the heart of europe which will serve as a future springboard for international terrorists in 10-20 years from now. While france grapples with its own moral decline, rapidly multiplying enemies within and flirting with neo-liberalism, Germany's will broken due to permanent imposition of historical guilt leading to demographic depression, decay and eventual death of german people Italy succumbing to perpetual anarchy. No large country in europe is left and so no centripetal force which can galvanize europe to be more independent and assertive. Kosovo is one of those final procedures before europe's eventual mummification. permalink quote 0 Sanjay
SrpskiCrnogorac 1 February, 2008, 17:33	"Germany's will broken due to permanent imposition of historical guilt leading to demographic depression, decay and eventual death of german people Italy succumbing to perpetual anarchy." I am not so sure about that. I strongly recommend my Russian brothers never ever to trust Germans. They never changed their ideology and foreign policy. They already began in a subtle manner to propagate how Kaliningrad is german. Russia should concentrate on making peace with Poland, instead of strenghtening Germany. I recommend to look on the following map: http://www.eurominority.org/version/maps/map-nations2-fr.asp It´s pretty obvious, which countries are interested in europe´s machiavellian policy. permalink quote 0 SrpskiCrnogorac
Sanjay 1 February, 2008, 19:39	European Countries Position vis-a-vis Russia SrpskiCrnogorac Your views are more rooted in 19th Century reality than the 21st century. I suggest you Study carefully on what happened in last 140 years. It will be a sobering experience. If you read the recent report detailing the analysis of european foreign council, it shows Poland is the leading anti-russian force backed by americans on the continent. "New cold warrior" was how Poland was named along with lithuania. Although the report has some misplaced perceptions on countries like estonia and UK overall it is fairly indicative of the positions of various countries vis-a-vis Russia. Your comments are misleading and clearly divorced from reality. here is the link to the full report http://www.ecfr.eu/content/entry/commentary_pr_russia_power_audit/ My own perception is that the most anti-russian countries in terms of intentions and capacity are 1. UK 2. Poland 3. Baltics- Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania 4. Romania There is a reason why november 1612 is so deeply etched in Russia's memory. permalink quote 0 Sanjay
Sanjay 1 February, 2008, 19:56	I do however want to add one more point on Germany - Russia Relations Germany is not really a strategic partner as is commonly thought. Various examples are given with overstretched imagination, for instance Nord-Stream. Nord_stream is clearly a cog so small that trumpeting it as an element of strategic relationship is laughable. Germany's relationship with its colonial masters is so deeply entrenched that Germany cannot move even as a much as an inch without prior dictation by anglo-americans. If Germany was really that much a strategic partner it would actively work on an independent european foreign and defense policy and the first step in that regard would be seeking independence from colonial occupation called as NATO and replacing it with independent North Eurasian Cooperation Organization (NECO). between Russia and Europe. Shanghai Cooperation Organization is not a step in the right direction for Russia, but Russians have been cornered and they have been left with no choice. The main problem Russia faces today is the betrayal from a section within its own elites, the oligarch-neoliberal nexus coalescing around Medvedev-Kudrin nucleus. permalink quote 0 Sanjay
Evangelos 2 February, 2008, 00:11	No, Kosovo is Serbian land. End of story. Turks should go back to where they came from. permalink quote 0 Evangelos
Aleksander 2 February, 2008, 01:23	Granting Kosovo independence from Serbia is not only illegal but also it is immoral. Such action would violate international law and the principle of state sovereignty. The world must believe in the power of law rather than the law of power. permalink quote 0 Aleksander
SrpskiCrnogorac 2 February, 2008, 09:46	Sanjay: Unfortunately, my view is not rooted in 19th century, but in the period from Germany´s re-unification until today and my view is of course mainly based on their Balkans policy. I want to remind you, that it was Germany which pushed its "colonial masters" to engage on the Balkans in the way they are doing it until today. I know the problematic Russia-Poland relations and therefore I said they should concentrate on making peace with them. "and replacing it with independent North Eurasian Cooperation Organization (NECO)." That would be great, and then I would admit that I was wrong. But believe me, Germany knows very well what they are doing and with whom. For them Slavs are barbarians, they would always prefer Brits, French and Americans before Russians. Never forget that. Although this was not the topic of this thread, I want to conclude, that without the new/old German Balkans policy, Serbia wouldn´t be in this bad situation today. permalink quote 0 SrpskiCrnogorac
Lopsided 2 February, 2008, 14:16	Today's world is lopsided, as it always will be, as long as there is a weak balancing force to neo-colonists and neo-fascists. The subjugation of Serbs, the machinations of the Albanian Mafia, the support by the Neo-CONS of US/UK to these terrorists that sit at the heart of Europe all speak that all nations BE ON GUARD!! The UN, all other international orgs. are powerless/impotent/need complete overhaul.It is at times like this, that the strong Soviet Union is sorely missed, for its political power and resilience, however that's long gone and now.? permalink quote 0 Lopsided
Norman 2 February, 2008, 20:19	If history is any indicator, look what happened when Bosnia and Croatia broke off from Yugoslavia. Can an independent Kosovo survive economically and politically? Is an independent Kosovo just an issue of political and religious pride? What is next, an independent Kurdistan- at the expense of Iraq and Turkey. Or will the Basque carve a country out of parts of France and Spain? When will it end? permalink quote 0 Norman
Marzipan6 3 February, 2008, 07:29	Sanjay, the Baltics are not anti-Russian. They have a very, very long history of living as Russia’s neighbours, have assimilated many Russians into their own society, including through innumerable intermarriages, and have generally good relations with Russians on a personal level. The Baltics are not anti-Russian, just pro-Baltic. They want to survive and live. And they see – quite correctly – a major danger to this coming from Russia, which tried its best to destroy them forever under the Soviet flag, and which has shown not even the least bit of remorse or any desire for reconciliation since. As soon as Russia seeks genuine reconciliation with Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, relations between them and Russia are likely to blossom. However, for its own short-sighted and profoundly unwise reasons, Russia prefers to maintain its belligerence towards them, thus ensuring that relations remain bad. permalink quote 0 Marzipan6

SrpskiCrnogorac 30 January, 2008, 16:51

The question alone is already a provocation. I hope the Russian´s are aware of it, that the real target is Russia, and that Kosovo serves only as a precedent. I want to remind you on the recent statement of U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Matthew Bryza, who hinted to the possibility, that Moscow´s enemies could recognize separatits within Russia. It´s all about destroying Russia. In this sense, I expect from Russia full military support in our both interests. It´s still better for you to fight now on the Balkans, than on your own territory in a foreseeable future.

permalink quote SrpskiCrnogorac

Jadranka 30 January, 2008, 20:29

If you watch or read CNN news, you can see who is favourite West candidate for Serbian president - it's Mr Tadic, but we will see soon who will be the president of Serbia and what will be with Kosovo and Metohija. Of course, in my opinion, there's no doubt - Kosovo and Metohija shouldn't be independent because it's historical part of Serbia and nucleus of Orthodox. Frederik, I agree with you at all, it's obvious that you know history of Serbia, Kosovo and Bosnia better than BosnianPasa. And message for him - you are a Moslim like my mother (born in old Bosnian town Travnik).that means, YOUR ROOTS ARE SERBIAN, BUT RELIGION IS ISLAM. "The Turks did come over and they brought a great religion to the Balkans !" - your words are answer on this problem. Yes, the Turks DID IT (to Serbian people)!!! And let be put DOT (.)on this theme! Regards from Serbia.

permalink quote Jadranka

Gazza 30 January, 2008, 22:47

Daniel January 30, 2008, 02:45 "Slobodan was a brutal dictator, the whole Kosovo crisis was his fault to begin with, because it was he who stripped Kosovo of its autonomy in the 1980s" True, but why did he do it? He did it because the local Albanian government was discriminating against the Serb minority, and ignoring the escalating Albanian nationalist violence. The Albanians misused the responsibility, so it was taken away from them. I see nothing wrong with that. P.S I dont see that Milosevic was a brutal dictator. For a start, he won his election aganist Draskovic in a fair manner. As for brutality, its unfair to Milosevic the sole scape-goat because his nation was being torn apart by inter-ethnic strife and minority nationalist scheming. If we want to see the main reasons for conflict, look elsewhere. The proto-fascist HDZ in Croatia and their blantant jew/serb hating rabid nationalism was responsible for starting the Croatian war, while the fundamentalist Izetbegovic with his desire for Muslim domination and Sharia law was the prime mover in the Bosnian conflict. Above all, it was the treacherous behaviour of the Germans, British and Americans that gave the various seperatist factions the diplomatic cover for their subversion. Publicaly declaring their preference for Yugoslav unity and diplomacy, they undermined Belgrade at every opportunity and secretly encouraged the seperatists. They trampled all over the secession negotiations by unilateraly declaring recognition of Croatian/Bosnian independance, thus ruining any hope of a peaceful breakaway. They deliberately formented war in Yugoslavia and undermined Serbia as part of a grand geopolitical power-play. Smash Yugoslavia into pieces, humiliate the Russians who were powerless to help federal Yugoslavia, force a settlement along the lines of US/NATO diktat, then absorb the chunks of territory into the Euro/Atlantic power structure. Promise the locals independance to gain their loyalty, and then slowly strip them of that independance via the corrosive influence of the EU's ongoing centralisation of power. Breaking up Yugoslavia was not enough however. Buoyed by their success, the Great Powers then moved against Serbia itself, motivated by a desire to bring to heel the Serbs, who had committed the great crime of defying the West (and were seen as being Communists). By secretly encouraging Albanian terrorists to destabilise Kosovo and force a Serb security crackdown, the West politicised the inevitable civilian casulaties inherent in any insurgency/counter-insurgency, then after failed "peace taks" at Ramboiullet (a setup from the outset) they used this to justify the long-planned attacks. Having lost control of Kosovo, and with the economic embargos biting deep, it was only a matter of time before the Belgrade government fell, only to be replaced with servile pro-Western sycophants who knew how to read the writing on the walls and how to take orders. In short, what the Nazis' could not achieve by force in the 40's, the NATO Hawks, EU Beaurecrats and corporate-controlled main-stream media acheived in the 90's by subversion, dishonesty, bribery, propaganda, bullying and good old-fashioned bomb-sight diplomacy.

permalink quote Gazza

Daniel 30 January, 2008, 22:57

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the Albanians had the right for self-determination as per the frm Yugoslavia Constitution. As for Serbia and the EU, it will become harder for them not to engage with the EU as pretty soon it'll be surrounded by EU nations. Croatia will join within 2 years, Macedonia in about 5, and negotiations with Albania and Montenegro have begun.

permalink quote Daniel

Gazza 31 January, 2008, 07:13

Daniel January 31, 2008, 01:57 I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the Albanians had the right for self-determination as per the frm Yugoslavia Constitution. That would probably be because the Albanian minorities had no such right. Albanians already have a homeland (a dysfunctional and ramshackle blight on the eastern adriatic coast) and Kosovo was not a republic of FSRY but just a constituent province of Serbia. In this respect they are no different from the Roma. Typical Albanian misinformation.

permalink quote Gazza

Sevodnya_Net 31 January, 2008, 13:03

"Albanians already have a homeland (a dysfunctional and ramshackle blight on the eastern adriatic coast) " You know when I read statements like that I really begin to understand a bit better why, sad though it might be for many, Kosovan independence is being pushed through. This thread in general tragically illustrates the bitterness and hatred (on all sides) in the Balkans.

permalink quote Sevodnya_Net

Gazza 31 January, 2008, 21:49

Sevodnya_Net January 31, 2008, 16:03 "Albanians already have a homeland (a dysfunctional and ramshackle blight on the eastern adriatic coast) " "You know when I read statements like that I really begin to understand a bit better why, sad though it might be for many, Kosovan independence is being pushed through" Interesting. you don't seem to be deny that Albania is a dysfunctional shabby slum. Its my personal experience that Albanians have the anti-Midas touch. Every they get their hands on turns to crap.

permalink quote Gazza

SrpskiCrnogorac 31 January, 2008, 21:54

"I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the Albanians had the right for self-determination as per the frm Yugoslavia Constitution." maybe you want to learn a bit about that topic. Kosovo’s Status in Global Comparative Context http://www.diplomacy.bg.ac.yu/mp1122.htm#1

permalink quote SrpskiCrnogorac

Daniel 1 February, 2008, 12:04

SrpskiCrnogorac: thanks for the article, i enjoyed reading it. The whole question of "self-determination" in quite a puzzling and contradicting one. There needs to be a comprimise. I'm not saying that Kosovo should or shouldn't be "independent", but it shouldn't be disregarded or treated with contempt lets not forget that thousands of people died in the Yugoslav conflicts, not to mention horrific accounts of human right abuses that occured in Kosovo and if Slobodan hadn't been kicked out in the Bulldozer Revolution, then who knows what would have happened!

permalink quote Daniel

SrpskiCrnogorac 1 February, 2008, 12:51

You are welcome, Daniel. I agree, a compromise must be found. That´s what we are saying all the time. ".not to mention horrific accounts of human right abuses that occured in Kosovo." That´s the problem with war time propaganda. It´s easy to spread it, but difficult to correct it. Allow me to recommend you two further readings: Faulty Justifications and Ominous Prospects NATO’s “Victory” in Kosovo http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa357.pdf and: 1086. What about what General Naumann told us when he was here two weeks ago? He said that he believed as the Chairman of the Committee that Milosevic, despite a bit of to-ing and fro-ing around the edges, had honoured the October Agreement by removing his troops from Kosovo and then the void was filled by the KLA going in and committing atrocities and abuses against the Serbs which then left Milosevic in the precarious position of either sitting back and allowing that to continue or to react. The suggestion he was putting forward was that the KLA manufactured the final NATO involvement there by taking that line when they did. If that was the case, did no-one see that coming? (Lord Gilbert) I think certain people were spoiling for a fight in NATO at that time, ***. If you ask my personal view, I think the terms put to Milosevic at Rambouillet were absolutely intolerable; how could he possibly accept them; it was quite deliberate. . 1087. Was the conflict avoidable? (Lord Gilbert) Chairman, yes, I suppose the answer has to be that, but on what terms is very difficult to say. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmdfence/347/0062005.htm You need to have in mind, that if there would have been such large scale human right abuses, as presented by western nmedia, then Serbia would have to give up Kosovo in accordance with international law. But since this is not the case, the West now has a problem to justify its stance.

permalink quote SrpskiCrnogorac

Sanjay 1 February, 2008, 16:46

Should Kosovo be independent Should new-england be indepdendent. Should muslim majority areas like bradford and west-london secede from UK establishing their own Caliphate. The fact is, it is jungle law in Europe. Might is right. And the europeans have descended into a position where they have become a colony of anglo-americans. Now what are the Strategic Objectives behind Europe. * Pleasing Turkey and giving it a greater foothold in Europe at the expense of Europeans * Appeasing international terrorists who will see independent kosovo as a tremendous psychological victory. * Humiliating Serbia and further cutting it to size. * Humiliating Russia and telling international community that Russia is powerless in europe to defend and protect its allies and european interests. * Creating lot of bad-blood between europe and Russia to keep them weak and divided. * Creating an open wound in the heart of europe which will serve as a future springboard for international terrorists in 10-20 years from now. While france grapples with its own moral decline, rapidly multiplying enemies within and flirting with neo-liberalism, Germany's will broken due to permanent imposition of historical guilt leading to demographic depression, decay and eventual death of german people Italy succumbing to perpetual anarchy. No large country in europe is left and so no centripetal force which can galvanize europe to be more independent and assertive. Kosovo is one of those final procedures before europe's eventual mummification.

permalink quote Sanjay

SrpskiCrnogorac 1 February, 2008, 17:33

"Germany's will broken due to permanent imposition of historical guilt leading to demographic depression, decay and eventual death of german people Italy succumbing to perpetual anarchy." I am not so sure about that. I strongly recommend my Russian brothers never ever to trust Germans. They never changed their ideology and foreign policy. They already began in a subtle manner to propagate how Kaliningrad is german. Russia should concentrate on making peace with Poland, instead of strenghtening Germany. I recommend to look on the following map: http://www.eurominority.org/version/maps/map-nations2-fr.asp It´s pretty obvious, which countries are interested in europe´s machiavellian policy.

permalink quote SrpskiCrnogorac

Sanjay 1 February, 2008, 19:39

European Countries Position vis-a-vis Russia SrpskiCrnogorac Your views are more rooted in 19th Century reality than the 21st century. I suggest you Study carefully on what happened in last 140 years. It will be a sobering experience. If you read the recent report detailing the analysis of european foreign council, it shows Poland is the leading anti-russian force backed by americans on the continent. "New cold warrior" was how Poland was named along with lithuania. Although the report has some misplaced perceptions on countries like estonia and UK overall it is fairly indicative of the positions of various countries vis-a-vis Russia. Your comments are misleading and clearly divorced from reality. here is the link to the full report http://www.ecfr.eu/content/entry/commentary_pr_russia_power_audit/ My own perception is that the most anti-russian countries in terms of intentions and capacity are 1. UK 2. Poland 3. Baltics- Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania 4. Romania There is a reason why november 1612 is so deeply etched in Russia's memory.

permalink quote Sanjay

Sanjay 1 February, 2008, 19:56

I do however want to add one more point on Germany - Russia Relations Germany is not really a strategic partner as is commonly thought. Various examples are given with overstretched imagination, for instance Nord-Stream. Nord_stream is clearly a cog so small that trumpeting it as an element of strategic relationship is laughable. Germany's relationship with its colonial masters is so deeply entrenched that Germany cannot move even as a much as an inch without prior dictation by anglo-americans. If Germany was really that much a strategic partner it would actively work on an independent european foreign and defense policy and the first step in that regard would be seeking independence from colonial occupation called as NATO and replacing it with independent North Eurasian Cooperation Organization (NECO). between Russia and Europe. Shanghai Cooperation Organization is not a step in the right direction for Russia, but Russians have been cornered and they have been left with no choice. The main problem Russia faces today is the betrayal from a section within its own elites, the oligarch-neoliberal nexus coalescing around Medvedev-Kudrin nucleus.

permalink quote Sanjay

Evangelos 2 February, 2008, 00:11

No, Kosovo is Serbian land. End of story. Turks should go back to where they came from.

permalink quote Evangelos

Aleksander 2 February, 2008, 01:23

Granting Kosovo independence from Serbia is not only illegal but also it is immoral. Such action would violate international law and the principle of state sovereignty. The world must believe in the power of law rather than the law of power.

permalink quote Aleksander

SrpskiCrnogorac 2 February, 2008, 09:46

Sanjay: Unfortunately, my view is not rooted in 19th century, but in the period from Germany´s re-unification until today and my view is of course mainly based on their Balkans policy. I want to remind you, that it was Germany which pushed its "colonial masters" to engage on the Balkans in the way they are doing it until today. I know the problematic Russia-Poland relations and therefore I said they should concentrate on making peace with them. "and replacing it with independent North Eurasian Cooperation Organization (NECO)." That would be great, and then I would admit that I was wrong. But believe me, Germany knows very well what they are doing and with whom. For them Slavs are barbarians, they would always prefer Brits, French and Americans before Russians. Never forget that. Although this was not the topic of this thread, I want to conclude, that without the new/old German Balkans policy, Serbia wouldn´t be in this bad situation today.

permalink quote SrpskiCrnogorac

Lopsided 2 February, 2008, 14:16

Today's world is lopsided, as it always will be, as long as there is a weak balancing force to neo-colonists and neo-fascists. The subjugation of Serbs, the machinations of the Albanian Mafia, the support by the Neo-CONS of US/UK to these terrorists that sit at the heart of Europe all speak that all nations BE ON GUARD!! The UN, all other international orgs. are powerless/impotent/need complete overhaul.It is at times like this, that the strong Soviet Union is sorely missed, for its political power and resilience, however that's long gone and now.?

permalink quote Lopsided

Norman 2 February, 2008, 20:19

If history is any indicator, look what happened when Bosnia and Croatia broke off from Yugoslavia. Can an independent Kosovo survive economically and politically? Is an independent Kosovo just an issue of political and religious pride? What is next, an independent Kurdistan- at the expense of Iraq and Turkey. Or will the Basque carve a country out of parts of France and Spain? When will it end?

permalink quote Norman

Marzipan6 3 February, 2008, 07:29

Sanjay, the Baltics are not anti-Russian. They have a very, very long history of living as Russia’s neighbours, have assimilated many Russians into their own society, including through innumerable intermarriages, and have generally good relations with Russians on a personal level. The Baltics are not anti-Russian, just pro-Baltic. They want to survive and live. And they see – quite correctly – a major danger to this coming from Russia, which tried its best to destroy them forever under the Soviet flag, and which has shown not even the least bit of remorse or any desire for reconciliation since. As soon as Russia seeks genuine reconciliation with Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, relations between them and Russia are likely to blossom. However, for its own short-sighted and profoundly unwise reasons, Russia prefers to maintain its belligerence towards them, thus ensuring that relations remain bad.

permalink quote Marzipan6

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