steve (unregistered) wrote in #10
Too often autistic people are seen as disabled but some of them are far from it! People say einstein, newton and bob dylan may be autistic. It allows people to have an intense passions for a specific area so they can make leaps and bounds normal people would find impossible. Autistic these days are put in "Special Schools" and have to deal idiots like bob, the "Behavioural Expert ". I agree that if they make trouble in the sea life centre, they should be kicked out! but not to let them in is proper slack! I think without autistic people we would be far behind where we are now!!! If anything i believe you're autistic, how dare you even call those icons autistic. 

Oh, for goodness sake! Life's rich tapestry has already been mentioned by one contributor. Autistic children should be treated exactly the same as anybody else. How about excluding all people who have bunions, or are too beautiful, and will show others up, and giving them special days to visit.

I think that in ALL societies -- the beauty and grand drama of LIFE itself is that :

with ALL OUR FLAWS as individuals and humans -- which Nature provides along with our BEST qualities and potentials and our societies' best achievements --

comes the VARIETY of what WE ARE...and that includes our "burdens" of ourselves -- such as when we grow old and weak and decrepit and no longer able to be "independent" - - or when we , as children, DEPEND on society and those that care about us and love us - simply as part of existence itself -- and from which we SHOULD learn to IMPROVE our sense of compassion, RATHER than only DESIRE that which is "perfect" or "normal" or "accepted" or "useful".

or else -- we are nothing more than Savages pretending to be humans.

Imagine then:

IF the great Russian Composer Peter Ilyitch Tchaikowsky was DENIED opportunities as a composer BECAUSE "you are homosexual" -- would the "Tchaikowsky International Piano Competition" that produced many of the world's greatest artists - and IS the greatest symbol of Russia's well-deserved world-renown of great music performances be here TODAY?
one of the greatest song-writers in all of western music -- HUGO WOLF -- wrote the great majority of his incredible works for voice and piano - probing deeply into the Human Psyche that has NO match anywhere in song literature -

was written while HE was instutionalised in the Insane Asylum --

he was "abnormal" , in other words -- but he gave a GIFT of Artistic greatness for all history to learn from.

Autistic Children - in other words -- are just as special as any other human being..and when they go out to society -- THEIR experience of "normal society" is their ONLY chance to BE "part" of society, rather than be treated like prisoners that should be shunned because they are not "normal".

PART of visiting an aquarium, especially for children , is to learn not JUST what the aquariums display -- but that a society has an institution such as an aquarium where LEARNING and education and exposure to knowledge and the world around us ALSO includes BEING PART of the "visitors" moving about the place.

what better way is there for autistic children to actually go OUT among themselves and THEN -- in an aquarium -- EXPERIENCE what SOCIETY is like "outside" of their group home as they watch , together with "normal society" --what an educational institution like the aquarium is like?

I think group visits like this should NOT be used as a way to FURTHER isolate the children FROM society by simply RELEGATING THEM to their "special schedule" -- "away from society" -- as if they are unwanted and just a "burden".

the ir VERY PRESENCE in "normal functions" of society is ITSELF an EDUCATION FOR the rrest of society - to SEE or REMEMBER that children, including autistic children are PART of the world...and in particular, autistic children could be OUR own children who should be embraced and nurtured BY society -- not just by their "caregivers". 
w hen they go out to "noraml society" -- they ALREADY are disadvantaged and need their caregivers and guides -- but isn't THAT the same with "tourists groups?" in foreign lands? or else they might get lost? 
BUT -- do societies TELL the tourist groups : "go and have a schedule at the end of the day when NO one is around to SEE YOU walking around here ?" as if they are being told - like in the USA 's history:? 
"you are black - go to the BACK of the bus because your color OFFENDS the white people?" 

concerning the aquarium itself:

IF it is simply the mistake of staff members, their difficulty in judgment (such as it might have been better to at least CONSULT with their officials while the children were about to visit or already there) --

it is simply a matter of EDUCATION for the staff - and reminding them -- the children are as much human beings as any " normal " person.

this does NOT mean that "russia is barbaric" (or else why would there even be human rights organizations such as that which spoke up for the children?) --

it simply means the aquarium has to come up with a better way of dealing with the situation that is required by less- able folks such as the children . on the other hand -- IMO -- there is NO logical reason to have to "schedule" them differently from "normal people". does one "schedule" a group of very old people in wheelchairs because the "normal patrons" might be "disturbed?"

same thing with the children. AQUARIUMS- as teaching institutions -- are more than anything a service to society to educate them -- and what better than to do so FOR children, autistic or not? AND to show them that in their experience of visiting the aquarium where "normal people" are outside of their regular institutional atmosphere for children like that -- that they TOO are PART of society -- whether or not they are Autistic, old people, single, married, educated or not, or "just children?"

"Deny autistic children because they disappoint other visitors.."

substitute:

"Deny : homosexuals, non-citizens, homeless, unemployed, those who don't wear trendy clothes, don't own cars of their own, less-educated, muslims, non-russians, coloreds, ...."

ANY category that might "disappoint" visitors who are "desirable" ...

and you get discrimination and prejudice - whether from the public or some official capacity -- and it becomes institutional exclusion.


i've been around autistic children -- and they are among the most wonderful, loving, - even those with faculties closer to "normal" function , very capable of social functioning...of any human being.

one would actually wish society has not LOST many of the loving, caring and trusting nature of autistic children from whom WE "the normals" - can be reminded of what WE LACK....one of them human compassion.

That memeber of staff speaking to the teacher is not qualified enough to work with animals if she cant tell the difference between autism and lets say paranoial  schizophrenia.

Why are expressions of self-righteousoutrag e like sex for some people? I think its a liberal thing. What is it about blind anger that is so satisfying? I doubt that it happened as in the article. Like it or not, some of these kids will require special attention.

While on museum property, people are the responsiblitiy of the museum. The museum has every right to adjust visits as needed to ensure smooth operations of the facility and the safety of visitors.

sorry, bob the "behavioural specia list"! 

Too often autistic people are seen as disabled but some of them are far from it! People say einstein, newton and bob dylan may be autistic. It allows people to have an intense passions for a specific area so they can make leaps and bounds normal people would find impossible. Autistic these days are put in "Special Schools" and have to deal idiots like bob, the "Behavioural Expert ". I agree that if they make trouble in the sea life centre, they should be kicked out! but not to let them in is proper slack! I think without autistic people we would be far behind where we are now!!!

The fish probably have more intelligence than the staff who work there.

how dare all of you.  saying stuff like that about people who have a condition they are born with.  autism is not the fault of anyone.  yes granted you can become autistic through experiencing extreme brain trauma but still.  how would you all feel if you had autism and people were saying stuff like this to you.  i myself have a twin brother who is deaf and autistic.  every day i wish i had been the one who developed the autism just for one day so he can experience life as you and i do.  and they do not have incidents that are stimulated by excitement.  they just don't understand how to comprehend it which if they are kept out of the way of every day life they will never understand it.  i bring my brother everywhere and he loves my kids and my kids love him just the same as they would love a "normal" person.  i've never seen him have an incident in a crowded place.  yeah he makes loud noises, so what?  if everyone around him doesnt like it then screw them.  i myself am used to it and i really don't care how everyone else feels.  if they don't want to be around him then they can go to their own separate place, not have him removed.  it's a place for fun and autistic people deserve to have fun like the rest of us.  and honestly, the people makin up stuff about having them go to the oceanarium on a closed day should be punished.  forget punishment, the only suitable punishment i can think of is to burn.

I am a behavioral speci alist working with autistic individuals for 15 years... I can understand the reservations coming from Oceanarium, when it comes to the peace of mind and safety of their patrons. Often times autistic people are unpredictable and intense. If anything I applaud the Oceanarium  for working with the people trying to get the best possible outc ome for all.  Depending on the severity of autism, an Oceanarium visit may be to overstimulating� �in the first place. I think they made a great suggestion to schedule a visit on a less busy day. If anything i am disappointed th at the caregivers would bring there clients into a situation that may invoke an indecent. I can guarantee that this uproar is not generated from the autistic individuals, rather from the self righteous  workers who provide care. They should be ashamed. This is not a big deal it is for the greater good. Lets not set our people up for failure, rather give them the best opportunity t o succeed . Long story short ... A less busy day would allow the autistic individuals to enjoy themselves b etter without the stimulation a crown can induce.

Screw that, I go to the zoo with mentally handicapped people all of the time.  Just go, they can't deny you entry.

Autism is genetic - probably from 1960's atmospheric fallout.

If one needs a demonstration of the level of civilisation/compass ion between Russia and the rest of Western Europe this is it! Autism is quite a common disability the world over and certainly in the west it gets a lot of publicity and media coverage so most people are aware of the disability. The shame is that the visit could have been the highlight of the year for some of those children and they will be bitterly disappointed. Visit s such as these are actually beneficial to sufferers of Autism who in some cases are highly intelligent but just a bit different. The whole matter could have been handled a lot better by the staff at the Oceanarium. This is something that the Nazis would have done!

Why did this report not name the school?

The real issue is that massing children into schools amounts to institutionalization - whether they are disabled or not.  Children belong in a safe home, not in a factory education system run for the benefit of the bureaucracy.  The personal computer has made distance learning possible for all grade levels, but the self-serving education establishment will not give up its lucrative kiddie prisons easily.   

that should cause some funding cuts for them and if it doesnt shame on anyone supporting them. i have no words for that kind of thinking towards people with disabilities but to despise it. shame on you. :(