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Triumph over Napoleon can become Russian national holiday

Published: 24 December, 2009, 21:26
Edited: 09 July, 2010, 14:52


A Russian Orthodox Church representative has proposed declaring January 7 the “Day of Napoleon’s Expulsion” from the country in 1812 and a national holiday.

 
19 COMMENTS
Bogdanov December 24, 2009, 20:01 quote
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I think, Russia really goes overboard with this stuff -- too much focusing on the past military specifics. Russia should remember about its integration into the world community and not creating specific anti-German or anti-French days. By the way, how about those Russians who fought against Mongols, Turks, Pols, or Swedish? Where are holidays for them? How about soldiers and officers who were put in the "shredder" of Afghan and Chechen wars? Having one holiday which honors Russians who defended the country in the past and today would be quite enough. Without official specifics against whom. I, personally, would feel myself uncomfortably with, say, my young German friend (who has nothing to do with Hitler Germany) during such anti-German days. Because, he would feel this discomfort. Such holidays with specifics separate people rather than unite them. The holidays like this -- the paradise for nationalists only.

celebrations December 25, 2009, 00:50 quote
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There is too much celebration of battles and wars. We should be teaching our young people that all wars are pure evil and must be avoided whenever possible. It is sick to glamorize war and promote it. War criminals should be tried and sentenced promptly. There should be zero tolerance of war crimes or genicide anywhere in the world. War is all about HUMANS KILLING OTHER HUMANS because their political leaders tell them the killing is necessary. Often, war is only about material wealth or the taking of someone else's land. The rich get richer, and the warriors and others suffer the consequences.

petrovich December 25, 2009, 00:52 quote
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i agree!!!

Meslin December 25, 2009, 14:51 quote
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I agree with the two previous comments. Naturally, as a Frenchman (rather an European of Normand descent), it could be understood. Here, in France we commemorate something related to wars almost every Sunday. Nonetheless, we have nothing to celebrate for the future and to give youths some spirit. Our machiavellic comedian: Sarkonaparte for political purposes, even almost wooke-up a young resistant (Guy Mocquet) killed by the Nazis. This makes us forget than during four years, a majority of Frenchmen were either sleeping or collaborating. As said, an other commentator: war is killing humans and there is nothing to rejoice about it. Sincerely. Jean-Claude Meslin

Marzipan6 December 25, 2009, 23:30 quote
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It would be encouraging if for once Russia were to choose a public holiday which did not involve heroic slaughter of one kind of another, but which features higher human qualities. How about setting aside a public holiday to commemorate the millions of ordinary men and women who passed through the horrors of the GULAG with their humanity, sense of humour and sense of proportion intact? It is such people on whom the better future of Russia depends; they ought to be celebrated ahead of killers.

Lelorrain (yves) December 26, 2009, 04:40 quote
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Russia won in 1812 and victory over the devil is good enough,make more celebration about war? our human history has already too many of them, as Napoleon he lost his mind by trying to conquer the world also the biggest casualty of his war was the French people.

Sarah December 27, 2009, 01:01 quote
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Bogdanov I must disagree with you on this point. In fact, I am very surprised that this is not already a Russian Holiday! Russia’s victory over the Napoleon’s army is at bar with the Soviet victory over the Third Reich. . Have you looked into how man millions of historical texts, movies, docs have been produced to mark and remark the WWII D-Day landing in the Western Front for the liberation of France in the Western Front in Western discourse and the collective imagination? And yet the whole Western Front represents less than ¼ of Germany’s total war effort. In reality, one has to read historical books to know that the D.Day landing cannot be compared to in military terms with the German defeat at the gates of Moscow, or German defeat in Stalingrad or German defeat in Kursk. I think that Russia has truly glorious military tradition. Yet, Russian is not a militaristic nation. Russia is very spiritual nation and this is reflected the most in its architecture such as churches, Mosques, Synagogues, memorial statues and monuments to its dead soldiers. I think it is long overdue that there is a national holiday commemorating Russia’s victory over the Napoleon’s army.

Rikard December 27, 2009, 18:38 quote
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As a matter of fact Napoleon was the first origin of the well-organized military mind obsessed with “rights” to destroy vast Slavic political habitus pivoted in Russia. Clausewitz – learning from Russia – reconfigured the situation to a “political right” how to make a war between sovereign states. He passed away. Hitler used this political right, committed suicide and triggered “Hiroshima right”. Today NATO is fostering the next retrieval of the same software using “human rights” triggering “right to the environment of not-sustainable sovereignties”. It has now faced up the conflict with the planetary environment, which did not “end history”, but ended politics as recently shown in Copenhagen. Father Hieromonk Filipp has linked the resumed evolving spiral to the unique Russian experience of Slavic Christianity, which remained on the rout of the obsessive sub cultural rights to demolition. No other intelligence service would ever be capable to replace this self-defending Russian sensor designed for the ultimate fight. Not for vulgar survival, but for life.

doninnz December 28, 2009, 02:02 quote
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If it would be the same day of the year as Christmas Day , 7th January, the significance would be lost. It is a good idea but make it another date in the year. Russia has much to be proud of, having been invaded twice in 130 years and emerging victorious!

Napoleon December 29, 2009, 02:31 quote
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Napoleon was born in Italy. The poor French continue to get the rap for this wicked villian. The French should disown this cowardly scoundrel. He was allowed to live, after he had caused the death of countless numbers of soldiers and civilians. He should have gotten the ultimate punishment, "DEATH", immediately.

doninnz December 29, 2009, 03:49 quote
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"'Sarah" The German effort in invading Russia 1941-1945 involved 80% of their land armies. DON New Zealand

Lelorrain yves December 29, 2009, 09:29 quote
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I do not think that we can compare Hitler and Napoleon,first, war in 1800's and 1940 were totally different Napoleon's army was foot soldiers and horses it only follows a pathway no air-power and those days army against army with heavy casualties (soldiers) not civilians as today's war. I do agree with Bogdanov European and Russian should look for the future join together and turn the page.

Sarah December 29, 2009, 22:35 quote
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doninnz I think what matters is context. of course, we must make note of the technological and tactical and differences in numers in terms of troops involved between the armies of Hitler and Napoleon. The real point worth stressing is that the Napoleon army marched to Mother Russia’s soil according to certain moral prerogative to invade Russia. The same ideological pull drove the armies of Hitler to invade the Soviet Union. What historians fail to note is that both Hitler and Napoleon were lured to Russia/Eurasia by the allure of the mystic land as the niches it holds within its womb. But at end both armies med but death!

Nicolas Peucelle January 03, 2010, 11:36 quote
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Who really lost in that old war? I still wonder how Napoleon missed a chance to free the Russian people from servdom and other mediaval structures of slavery. His attraction to Moscow instead of just taking Saint Petersburg and proclaiming all these reforms for which Russia was in need, maybe giving them a first constitution and assembly of modern minded men.. all this fight .. for nothing.. just to make the people feel proud.. that all will remain the same... More absurd consequence of this history: 1914 Romanov Russia will be on the wrong side and die for the saving of the French Republic... but instead of becoming a free Republic.. will turn into a red dictatorship. That is also because the Russian people lacked 100 years of education by "Napoleon-French-Freedom ideas".

Serbian January 10, 2010, 19:18 quote
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Mr Peucelle, your comments would be considered no less than imbecilic, if it were not for your most obviously arrogant and rather chauvinistic view of Russian civillisation. 'I still wonder how Napoleon missed a chance to free the Russian people from servdom and other mediaval structures of slavery.' This is a wholly fascist viewpoint. You seem to justify invading other countries and killing a great many of their people for the sake of "civillisational progress"..? You further go on to say that the resistance the Russians gave was pointless, because of this "missed opportunity". Why don't you qualify this statement further, as it is highly contentious? Namely, by resisting the onslaught of Napoleonic France, Russia was the only country in Europe that escaped the system that came with Napoleonic occupation. The 'Restoration State' spearheaded by Napoleon was still a bourgeois led system, with its roots deeply embeded in the bloody and anti-theistic French Revolution. Under his rule the French local government, formerly headed by leaders which ordinary people had a direct connection to, was decapitated and replaced by unknown bureaucrats appointed directly from Napoleon's central government. Indeed, it is very strange that a system which supposedly replaced a formerly corrupt and moreover despotic system, overwhelmingly concentrated its power into a single supreme authority, whilst the former system had an inbuilt distributive system of power, with no single supreme authority.. (?) Stranger so was the fact that all Frenchmen of able bodied adult age, regardless of which part of France they came from, were forced into military conscription under Napoleonic rule, from which they personally recieved no real benefit, either to themselves or their families.. (?) These 2 facts I just mentioned took root everywhere in Europe, except Russia, until 1918. That evidently appears to me that Russian people were actually FREER than their brothers in the west.

Serbian January 10, 2010, 19:39 quote
+1

I'll just add one more interesting comment with respect to the last part of my last post. You are quick to criticise serfdom, but just take a look at the daily lifestyle for the majority of ordinary citizens of western Europe, after the Industrial Revolution. People worked in factories every day of the week, for as much as 14 hours a day, for very little money. Small children were also used in huge numbers to squeeze into small spaces like chimneys and in the coalmines, for the purpose of unblocking them. In the process untold numbers were maimed or even killed. Now compare that to the lives of most ordinary Russian peasants, and let me know if you still have the same opinion about Russia's "loss" at the failure of Napoleon's invasion! "More absurd consequence of this history: 1914 Romanov Russia will be on the wrong side and die for the saving of the French Republic..." Now I would agree entirely with that view, if it were not for Emperor Nicholas Romanov's completely genuine support for my Serbian people against the despotic Austrian empire. He didn't have to support us, like many previous Russian emperors didn't, but he valued family and close brotherly relations more than power and prestige, and indeed he paid the price for this. I don't doubt that you think he was insane, but isn't it more insane to base your politics entirely on pragmatism and abstract concepts such as freedom, equality and fraternity, over the interests of people themselves?? Just look at the European Union today, and tell me if you genuinely like it.

Nicolas Peucelle January 31, 2010, 20:07 quote
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I think that Gavrillo Princip and his serbian assasin team were not what Nicolas II considered his familly or brothers, neither something to sympathize with. Terrorists are the arch ennemy of the Tsar. His familly you mention, he really valued were russian, british, danish and especially germans from Hesse and Prussia. I think Nicolas II made a mistake to not value enough his familly ties in front of fanatical warmongers, pseudo-friends and megalomaniac panslavic "nationalists" and the dangerous "brotherhood" you mention. People who plotted with their franco-russian-serbian military fraternizations and also summer-winter vacations on the french riviera. This was the big mistake of Imperial Russia.. to enter a binding alliance with La douce France and Serbia, the completely unrelated Monarchy , quite new on the scene as power factor in the Balkans. This bad alliance killed the Russian Imperial state. Satisfied now? About Serfdom: That you try to justify this slavery may be due to your experience of being enslaved by the Ottomans in a "sweet" way? Without the "evil" austrians who often allone fought the Ottomans, (against Britain and France who supported the Turks even against Russia) , preparing their decline and YOUR freedom as a Serbian Nation, you soon turn against that only Empire who helped you to become free. Next: No, I do not think Nicolas II was insane. He was a good man and he made a lot of mistakes. He was lured by promises of the French and British that Constantinople will be ruled again be the orthodox, and this dream he shared with some of you in the Balkans. You remember the Fall of the Byzanthine? Those sad days when your Serbian Royals were already vassals and mercenaries of the Sultans ? Fighting against the christian liberation armies and helping the Sultans to survive in the former Holy City ? Now you think that all Russian People had to die by millions for your poor nation having a problem with the "bad" Austrians? I disagree. Stop dreaming.

Terry July 09, 2010, 10:44 quote
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As each day passes, any large country will accumulate special events and numerous heros. It's conceivable that in a thousand years, every day of the year could be dedicated to one or the other. If every day of the year is a holiday, there's a problem. One solution, at least for heros is a national hero's day; names of people are added to this growing list over time. This celebrates the people, keeps working days as working days and doesn't omit anyone deserving recognition. The list can grow to be quite large while the number of working days in a year can remain stable.

Dust February 09, 2011, 23:39 quote
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@Peucelle "Without the "evil" Austrians who often allone fought the Ottomans…"
You forgot to mention that 90% of those Austrian troops fighting the Turks were serbs… Please stop with this demagogy.
And serfdom cannot be equalised with Turkish slavery. Peasants in Imperial Russia had more freedom than workers in western Europe, who were de facto slaves of new capitalistic order that Napoleon introduced after the revolution.

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