NATO knocking
Published: 23 July, 2010, 19:37
Edited: 06 October, 2010, 12:38
Russian and NATO military brass met for talks in Moscow on Friday where heightened cooperation was high on the agenda. But how much does Russia really gain from its cooperation with the 28-member Alliance?
I'm an American that can trace his family lines back to the 1700's. As an American, I am apalled by the actions of the government that has taken over. Certainly, they do not represent our Constitution. America's on the road to Empire: PERIOD. It's amoral, functioning outside the bounds of morality. Anyone dealing with it must know that. Regarding NATO, this government thinks it is it's private army, expanding to a point it will be useful building it's Empire. Agreements? Stalin's quoted as saying " promises are as pie crust, made to be broken". Stalin was called FDR's "Uncle Joe". Russia threw off the cloak of USSR only to have America don it. Mr. Bridges is, as usual, right on the money.
“And in a final snub, the United States continues to deny Russian aircraft from defoliating Afghanistan’s millions of acres of poppy fields, the product of which in the form of heroin is increasingly finding itself on Russian streets.” But is this not what the U.S is doing in Columbia? But of course, Russia cannot do what U.S is doing in Columbia in Afghanistan. In other word, the Russians can be overruled by the U.S but the revises is not true: the Russians cannot insist that it needs to fight the Afghan drugs that are killing millions of Russian citizens. But now, we also know a Russian pilot has been kidnapped from Liberia, that he was extradited to the U.S two months ago on charges of traffic illegal drug trafficking from Latin America to Africa and then to Europe. However, Russia was not informed of the arrest and the illegal transfer of its citizen from Liberia to U.S prison. Why Russia not do the same in the Afghanistan: engage in covert operation and kidnap those who are engaged in the protection and transfer of illegal drugs from Afghanistan to Russia?
PR101 "Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!" For once I agree with your position. As I recall, there was a time in Afghanistan when the US/NATO was eliminating the poppy fields, but found that since this was the only way for many Afghans to make money, without them, many more were joining the Taliban to get paid. So, if the poppy fields are going to be eliminated, some way must be found to replace that money making endeavor. @Babeouf Defeating the Taliban in Afghanistan has not collapsed. There are probably not more than 100 Taliban in the entire country.
@PR101, It is in the USA National interest to stop the flow of drugs from Columbia to the USA, it is also in their National interest to keep the flow of drugs into Russia and destroy as many Russian lives as possible. Softening up the victim for the final assault. Remember the sanctions on various countries before the final assault by the USA + Vassals from NATO? It is their MO.
I agree with the basic argument of this article. Russia seems to be accommodating nato and the US at every turn, but never seems to gain much in the bargain. Even when that demented Georgian warlord Saakashvili launched a sneak attack against Ossetians and Russians, the entire Western mouthpiece made it sound like Russia instigated the whole thing. Beware the next time that a little nation kicks up dust and Russia defends itself. The rabid, lunatic, foaming-at-the-mouth republicans will be crying for blood.
It seems that American and European populace does not see the link between the controlled financial destruction and the endless wars, occupations, military programs, military and civilian bureaucracies supporting the imperial amibitions, so there is no hope for them. But it is quite surprising that Russia is choosing to participate in this gigantic money-destroying enterprise. Russia's capital needs to be invested wisely, especially in modern urban ifrastructure that would provide modern workforce and kick-start manufacturing with its own abundant resources. Somehow, Medvedev's Administration seems to be really bent on building the relationships with the alliance that cannot win its one an only war it started. After all, after first two weeks in Afghanistan, there was really nothing to do but to go home. AlQaeda camps were destroyed --- and the feudal system of Afghanistan should have been left alone to its fate. Instead, the "Taliban" is being invented and reinvented. Whatever that means. Taliban stands of "students", and sure enough, there will always be new lessons to be learned as funeral parties, weddings, fuel trucks and high school slumber parties are attacked by brave NATO, going into their tenth year of bravery. Now, nobody knows where the enemy really is, where are their supplies, ammunition storage, armed forces or leaders. And if West really insists on having such wars, it makes little sense in participating. Russia's problems are not "Taliban", but drug lords, and those are protected by NATO, along with their hundreds of heroin labs and transport convoys out of the country. Sixty billion worth of profit is a nifty sum, and does not go into the reconstruction of Afghanistan. Cui bono?
Srbin Yes, The U.S [dual]/ diametric illegal drug project: anti-drug strategy in Columbia and pro illegal trafficking in Afghanistan. This is plainly clear to even those who are not analysts. According to presentations at a Russia sponsored conference on illegal Afghan drugs in Moscow [I think it took place in the first or second week of June 2010], one can see plainly the irreconcilable positions between Russia and the U.S when it comes to how to fight illegal drug trafficking in Afghanistan. It was also clear from these presentations that the UN and the Europeans Union representatives repeated the U.S talking points. The conference also provided valuable statistical data of who is consuming Afghan heroine as Russians, Europeans and Iranians. We do not often think Iran as a victim of illegal drug coming from Afghanistan. We must keep in mind that the illegal drugs had been used by an other Anglo Saxon empire in the 19th century [ the British empire used opium to destroy China]. The most pressing question is is Russia able to press the war against Opium coming from Afghanistan as threat to Russia? Russia is surrounded by countries which are used as transit posting stages for illegal drug trafficking into Russia. These countries have strong NATO/US backing. Perhaps Russians are doing something behind the scenes but publicly things are looking not promising for Russia. GaryMax Please read the article- and then try to attribute correct words to the correct author.
Here is the link to RT's story on Afghanistan's heroin problem and how it is becoming a nightmare for Russia: http://rt.com/Politics/2009-10-07/russia-opium-war-us.html
Tony Moore: If Russia truly cared about the heroin it has it would be in Afganistan. They (Russian Government) would rather have a drug addicted populas than to help the US.
It would be better for Russia to have a military training with ships and airforce together with Northkorea in this day's, than to discuss with enemies. Russia , China and Southamerica can win against the EU and the USA. That would be the best for the human race. And i would like to see you Russia more powerful at the UN Headquarter, esspecially concerning Gaza and Iran, and last but not least the imperialist of the USA are attacking our friends in Venezuela. Please Russia remember the times and the values you had once upon a time.
Drugs were one of the key point to pay for the undercover operation run by the CIA since 1970. Drug infiltration has been one of the key point for the US to destabilize the Russian army during the Russian-Afghan war (dearly helped by the French intelligence-which were the master-minders). Do you need more lessons or the Russian army Generals have been taking a nap? Sometimes I wonder if Russia is suffering from a "Napoleon syndrome": you need to be almost destroyed before you understand what's happening...
It is not only the Afghan drug problem, but Russia's policies with regard to addiction and lack of assistance to its own citizens. As a result,HIV is also seriously increasing in Russia, while it is generally decreasing in most developed countries.
Nice GaryMax... blame Russia. The people of Mexico should stop planting food and start planting poppy fields and start smuggling heroin into the US... I am sure those poor Mexican farmers need the money that will generate, and the US can mind its own business because it doesn't control the Mexican government and it has no right to tell a democratically elected government what to do. It should just deal with its own people and find the users and dealers and deal with their addictions. Right. And Americans don't understand why people don't like them... Oh that is right... it is because we are all jealous of their freedom and power and their democracy.
July 26, 2010, 16:05, GarryB wrote > Nice GaryMax... blame Russia. What don't you understand? Do some research. And, I said "Russia's policies with regard to addiction and lack of assistance to its own citizens" is PART of the problem. Drugs from Afghanistan are ALSO PART of the problem and I would like for NATO to help mitigate the flow of drugs into Russia from this region. > And Americans don't understand why people don't like them... Oh that is right... it is because we are all jealous of their freedom and power and their democracy. Only speaking for myself, but it isn't one of my goals in life to get people to like me. Some do, and some don't. That's life. I am also at least intelligent enough to distinguish between governments that I don't like and people who I don't like.
So Mexican farmers can start planting poppy crops Gary? Or does your perception that Russia is not doing enough to combat drugs in their own territory justify the duality of the US policy on drugs in Afghanistan and its own border? And regarding discerning US citizens vs US government, if the US citizens don't care what the US government does they are just as much to blame as the government.
July 28, 2010, 08:26, GarryB wrote > So Mexican farmers can start planting poppy crops Gary? They don't have to. We fight daily battles combating drugs from Mexico into the US, and provide considerable support to the Mexican government to help them fight drug production. > Or does your perception that Russia is not doing enough to combat drugs in their own territory justify the duality of the US policy on drugs in Afghanistan and its own border? No it does not. As I have already made my position clear, which you apparently do not read, that the US/NATO and Russia should work together to reduce the Heroin coming across the Afghan border. But the US does help Russia internally, per the RT story, Drug ring aiming at elite night clubs busted, where “We received a tip from our American partners, and this led to a six-month-long operation to arrest the criminals,” Ivanov said. "In the US, the DEA is doing their part to arrest the cocaine suppliers." Russia has now become the world's largest user of Heroin. As a result of drug paraphernalia sharing in Russia, HIV is on the increase. > And regarding discerning US citizens vs US government, if the US citizens don't care what the US government does they are just as much to blame as the government. Don't care and changing are different, but as a population they are responsible; as individuals they may or may not be responsible. Human relations should be made on individual judgment, and that was my point. Sorry you missed it.
Wow, Mexican Farmers don't need to grow poppy crops to make a living? Why don't you pass the magic secret they use to make a living to the Afghan farmers? Individual Americans might be very nice people... there are a few on this forum like Fred of Oregon USA, but if US government policy is to ignore Heroin production in Afghanistan then they become part of the problem. The solution is clear. Right now this heroin production is not seen as a big enough problem to them. Perhaps less cooperation from Russia might help them to realise it is a big enough problem to be worth their attention.
Comments made by PR101 are excellent. Moreover when telling the story of a Russian pilot transfered in America without advising the Russian authorities. This simply means that the Russian Government is weak. Mr Medvedev is certainly a very decent person, a good businessman but a lousy politician. He still has not understood who are the creeps from the other side. I had suggested that Drugs be included as weapons of mass destruction when setting the new START treaty. Russians were too "chicken" to do it. Now, you just have to count the victims of those poisons who will have been saved. Sorry Future Generations...Best Regards. Jean-Claude Meslin
Medvedevs job isn't to stand up to the big bad US, or NATO or the UN.
His job is to improve things for Russians living in Russia.
He seems to be doing a reasonable job of this.
If he was weak the US would be moving all their military equipment through Russia were it would be much safer than through Pakistan... the home and creator of the Taleban.
The idea of linking Drug trafficking to a Strategic Arms Reductions Treaty is ridiculous. Heroin is not a Strategic Arm so why would you include it in a treaty to reduce Strategic Arms?
Chem and Bio weapons are not covered by START either for the same reasons...
Surprised because normally you make a lot of sense.










The problem here is not NATO as a military alliance. But NATO as a military alliance most of whose members are European states and whose policy is formulated in the USA. As the case of EU membership for Turkey proves outside of the NATO block the influence of the government of the USA in Europe continues to decline. The gestures made by the USA towards Russia via NATO are cosmetic only and will remain so. The policy of defeating the Taliban in Afghanistan has collapsed. And European security rapprochement with Russia will lead rapidly to a further marginalization of the USA in Europe. So the Russian government should continue to concentrate on Russian EU relations. NATO has displayed its military potential to good effect in Afghanistan. And as its armies withdraw from the mess it has created its value to the people of Europe will become a hot political topic.