Wow, so the memory came back , everyone in the world knew that WWII started on the 1st of September in Poland when Hitler attacked Poland and then on the 17th Sept. Red Army invaded Poland after Ribentrop-Molotov Pact of frienship.Yes my friends, Hitler and Stalin were good frieds the ony problem was while Stalin was preparing for offensive attack on the West Hitler was going East so that's why Red Army was smashed and destroyed for the first 2 years because they did not expect invasion from friendly 3rd Reich and they planned offensive war not defensive.

Yes the memory is returning the the Nazi's initiated the war. The problem is that the vanquished Nazis and other Axis powers try to serve up an alternative verison of history, to try to clense their Nazi past. I simply love the propaganda terms like 'Friendship pact' - try to be at least a simple academic and look at the original source material. Not a Western propaganda regurgitator. And yes the British, French and Italians, signed a 'friendship' pact with Hitler - the Munich pact, the Czechs loved it! Funny they called it betrayal!

The problems aren’t just between Russia and Poland. They are between Russia and Ukraine, Russia and Georgia, Russia and Estonia, Russia and Latvia, Russia and Lithuania, Russia and Armenia, even Russia and Belarus, and Russia and Japan. What does logic tell you the common factor in all these groupings is?

So lets get the common links sorted out. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Japan - All part of the Axis powers, they were the enemies in WWII, wonder why they complain about being beaten by the Soviet Union. Georgia, Ukraine - under foreign management Belarussia and Armenia - a nice diversion The ring leader the defeated Axis mob - There is some logic to the world after All! Russia has a problem with Nazis! doesn't Everyone!

Poland trups move in Czeczoslovakia with Nazi Germany.They also kill 1000 of Russian prisoners in 1920!West-Ukraine(nazi partner in WW2) Start killing Russian nationals-a nazis themself!Georgia(Russia give them a state and freedom from muslim ocupation-forgoten) attack S.Osetia-never give them referendum(Was sign by Georgiain-it was a law in SU),also attack and kill innorcent and Russian peacekeepers-Shaakashvili is a nazi puppet!Estonia,Latvia,Lithuania-in a nazi lane before WW2-kill 60000 Russian prisoners,Jews also-figth Russia in WW2!Japan attack Russia 1904-05,ocupation of China, all S.Asia.They attack SU 1938-39 inWW2-a nazi partner state to!Armenia??Belarus-milk war???All of those states( minus Armenia and Belarus )wage first aggresive and unprovoken( true history)wars on Russia-on Russia soil and on Russia nation...Its clear who is who here! What about Sweden,Baltic states,Poland attack on Russia?? Or Napoleon(All Europe )attack on Russia??Or Sweden kingdom(today 7 states)plus Otomans Empery(today 15-20 states)plus Europe(today 15-20 states) attack on Russia together?? Groupings-yes! Logic-yes.All of them wage wars agains Russia on Russia soil and lost! Who got problem with who? Russia with them - not other way around! Galileo Galiley have to say in front of church leaders(to safe his life) -eart is flat-but it wasnt!Who was right?? Of course he was right-as Russia today!

Zak Poland killed 1000 Russians in 1920? Big deal! Russia killed about 1 milion Poles during 1939-1945 :D.

RE:from Poland From the time of yours tribes ,Germanic one and also wikings, Poland nation wage first unprovoken,aggresive wars on Russia nation and on Russia soil! For 700 plus years always was like that-never other way around!You also never miss a "chance"to jump with anyone who"happy" travel to east.You been in alliance with Arab muslim states and others Europeans in the past for the same reason-to wipe out Russ nation and stole their land.Russia never put a claim for that and never ask for your sorry!You sign before everyone pact with nazis!Munich and SU-hitler pakt was years after that!You did ocupate with your army (with nazis at a same time) part of Czech republic-on top of public it was a secret dill done by nazis!Yet today ,as some others(same kind as you) you play a pure victim and ask for sorry?!With your past doing Russian victims run in many(hisroty hard evidence) millions! Just befor Putin visit your own experts put number of your"victims"done by Russia on 300000 plus and not one million!I bet in the future number will go down more-probable under 100000. Never the less, one short live cut is to many-and i dont agree with your-big deal! Russian or Polish or any other nation innorcent victim wich die before his natural time by force is simple a crime!You Polish nation, bring that fate on you by your own wrong doing, as first and foremost!Poland policy today, is in the same line on the wrong dark side of history as before! Your policy of threats and provoking of Russia today is danger for Europe peace!I am just afraid next time Russia will(Baltics,west-Ukraine to) say "sorry" to you in a best maner what you wish and try to do to them for 700 years-a total wipe out of your state and your nation-LAWFULLY and with a justice is done!!Take care of yourself...

Polaks ...stop complaining ... you have been violent and aggressive through history towards Russia ... stop holding on to this one "fact" ... you've got what you have asked for ... @Marzipan ... the logic factor is that those countries including Estonia have tried something against Russia .. got slammed .. and now they are sitting and complaining like a couple of old women ... oh and their governments have Western puppets for leaders.... by the way .. we don't have real problems with Belarus and Armenia ...

Zak 1. When Poland was formed there was nor Russia nor Russian nations. 2. This was a non-agrression pact with the same formula as with Romania just nothing special 3. Partition of Czechoslovakia wasn't a secret - not unlike Ribbentropp-Molotov pact, which was hid from historians. 4. When You count those who died during expulsion from Ukraine and Belarus after partition - then yes this number is this big. 5. Poland is from from innocent - I never said that. 6. Polish policy is the same as Russian - to have good neighbors. It is actually Russia which is much more provocative in this term - Poland never threatened Russia that it will be invaded and nuked - like in 1991, 1993 and 1999 only because Poland wanted to join EU and NATO. Polish military planes don`t fly through Russian air zones I remind You.

I just love the Poles, forever making out to be victims of all conflicts with Russia or its precursor states. Muscovite–Lithuanian Wars 16th century Poles and Lithuanians invaded duchy of moscow The Livonian War of 1558–1583 Poland and allies invaded Tsardom of Russia The Polish-Muscovite of War 1605–1618, Poland took the opportunity of civil unrest in Russia to invade them The Smolensk War of 1632–1634 Russia kicked the poles out of smolensk. The Russo-Polish War of 1654–1667 when the Ukraines were pulling away from Polish influence to join Russia The French invasion of Russia of 1812 under Napoleon which was more of an multinational invasion and included 100,000 polish troops The moral of the Story is that when Poland had the means, they took every opportunity to invade the Russians, When Russia Becames stronger then them, they started playing the victim. Even when they did not even have the means, they still ploted distruction of the Russian empire and the the USSR as the new documents released show. Grow up, if you keep picking a fight with your traditional enermy when you really cant face them, you are sure to get kicked on your behind.Yet knowing that given the opportunity, you will be first to attack them again.

I think it is high time to put the discussion on the right track. If everyone followed the kind of thinking Zak and From Poland present on this forum most of the world would be a nuclear dessert by now. A little bit of understanding on both sides please. I understand that for the Poles Katyn is an incredibly sensitive matter. Polish Army officers were not the only murdered: academics, priests and doctors were among those killed, hundreds of thousands of ordinary civilians were deported to Siberia and Kazachstan; I have personally met some of those who came back from there and their experiences are truly dreadful. I can see that for the Russian people those facts may not mean that much – some of their relatives classified as potentially dangerous to the Soviet state were subject to very similar treatment; to prevent any threat to his rule Stalin also ordered to murder his entire officer corps. However, one may still argue that of many ethnicities of the USSR, the Russian population was, proportionally, among those less affected by deportations. As for the Soviet POWs in the Polish-Bolshevik war of 1919-21, a joint Russian-Polish commission of archivists has established in 2004 that there are no records of mass killings of the Soviet prisoners in Polish captivity (the report is available through the Russian National Military Archive in Moscow, for the price of 380 Rb). Around 16-20,000 thousand of prisoners died of diseases in Polish camps; there are evidence of shooting prisoners on the spot by both sides, but not of ‘machinegun-fire executions’ as some claim. Nonetheless, the Polish government should address the sensitivity of the case in the same way they expect the Katyn case to be treated by the Russians. The 1920 war was cruel and merciless for both sides and victims of this conflict deserve honour and remembrance regardless of their nationality. The victims of Stalinist crimes deserve no less.

Sam, Bringing wars from 16-17th century into this discussion is quite ridiculous. One can only judge political decisions against the criteria of the époque they were made at. During the times you have mentioned the notion of a ‘nation’ did not even exist, while force was common means of resolving disputes on both local and ‘international’ level. But this was the case perhaps until mid 19th century, certainly not after the World War I when Hague Conventions already existed.

Sam - well said! Le5iu - your not on any right track, your completely on the wrong track. Over 600,000 Soviets had to mop up after Poland was collaborating with the Nazis and working with the British to destroy the SU. let's see some sensitivity on this one from you. The truth is that Poland as judged by all factors at the time, was a country hell bent on attacking whoever it could to realise its colonial ambitions. These included Czechoslovakia with direct military force and the SU through terrorism and subversion. Sam is absolutely correct to bring up the previous form of Poland, a country hell bent on attacking whenever an opportunity represents itself. We need learn from history, and the history of Poland tells us to be on our guard, as it will at all times be working in an anti Russian fashion.

Le5iu The problems between the Russians and Poles did not start at the start of the last centuary but sooner, so why are you excluding the real origin of the problem because it happened before then? History is not meant to be selective. Its as if you are picking the start of the issue from the point when the Russians were stronger then the Poles and want to leave out the time when the roles were reversed. FYI the notion of a nation did exist in the 16th centuary and longer before then.

Re:Le5iu In our "free and democratic west" truth is upside-down from times of slavery!By our own experts west kill and wipe out,in all 4 direction of the planet up to 2 BILLION (shall be people today) and never-ever one of as was punish for crimes! We value our kids but never value some other kids around the globe-in best maner of Anglo-Saxon policy that their toalet rubish is much more worth than others nations kids life!Truth about ourself is our black hole with "clean record" forever, form in our so call "a government policy" till today!Its clear as it can be, looking a big picture..west was and remain the biggest and main culprit and as such a threat for world peace today!Russia was and is today a moral side of humanity!No wander that peace loving nations in silence keep their side!I am against wars and any lost of lifes before our natural time come...A future nuclear dessert will happend if we keep going lienig first and formost ourself and if we(not in my name)keep going killing people with impunity(with fake excuses)in their own homes around planet! But is also truth that someone as me on other- right -side, with moral and love,respect for all humans will in the end say:enough is enough...To be honest for the record-if someone wage unprovoken wars true history on my soil and continues to kill my family over and over...i would wipe that scum forever...Mr.Gorbatcev and mr.Yeltsin done wrong to say sorry to Polish and the rest! Right way was as first and foremost for Batlics,west-Ukraine and Polish to say sorry to Russians for attacking them first and then ask for same! To Sam and Count Cash-thank you for your honest comments-i did learn more...

Apologies.. actually Poland's approach to the issue is also different from the Russia's one that we have apologised them - Ukrainians, Lithuanians and others - for our wrongdoings towards them. Not only apologised, but also we are partners or even allies now. Poland organises football championship together with Ukraine and supports its prospective entry into EU and NATO, Polish and Lithuanian presidents mediated during the Orange Revolution and no politician nor historian claims that, for example, seizing Vilnius in 1920's was a self-defence act - while such approach would be completely unthinkable for the Russian authorities. Just look at how these countries are being portrayed in the Russian media: "Nazi puppets", "temporary state under foreign management" etc... this only tells the truth about those who issue such "opinions" (=Kremlin propaganists), not about those concerned - it's just because Russian politicians can't stand the fact these nations finally got they long-awaited independence. Not only they can't stand it, but also they make many efforts to destabilise them - Russians, open your eyes! And stop gloryfying and justyfying Stalin and his policies (including those towards neighbours), he'd eagerly put every Russian person in front of the firing squad if he was still at power.

One comment to the article from someone in Poland. I won't get into the historic debate, as this is not my point. Both sides have their arguments. I would like to say that "Poland" in such articles means the Polish Government or sometimes even the Polish President (who 8-14%(!) Poles agree with). Poland, as it is, I mean the people not the figures, don't really care about the historic debate (80% don't care according to a pole by Fakty TVN) and for young Poles the 1st of September is mainly the date of the beginning of the school year. Also over 60 percent of Poles think that Putin's visit was a good idea, as opposed to 20 who think otherwise (another pole by fakty). And during my travels to Russia I have met the same attitude toward Poles by Russians - also good and no talk about history. So it's not really Poles vs. Russians, it's just the goverments. Also while citing Polish Media, one should remeber that privately owned TVN and Polsat are the objective media. TVP (Polish State Television) is run by an exotic coalition of people, mainly for right wing parties like LPR and peasant Samoobrona. Both of which really made a laughing stock of themselves and lost all the backing they had and now have like 0.5% supporters each. So Polish state news is sadly very anti-Russian, much more then other media. But Russia isn't singled out here. It's anti-German whenever they get the chance also. And Anti-Left Wing Parties, Ant-Government, Anti-Lech Walesa and generally pro-magrinal right wing parties and sometimes pro-president, who is know for a long time the president with the least supporters in Polis history (8-14% depending on pole). BTW: on foreign websites (such as this one) there is always also a shocking number of right-wing Poles posting, cause they are the only ones that care. When in reality they make up about 1/10 of the population, under articles about war, they make up sometimes 2/3 of the posts. But this is also misleading. Mike

Mike - great post,and glad to see you splitting the Polish people, from the Polish state machine. I believe also that ordinary Poles aren't swallowing the daily diet of Phobic rubbish served up by their state machine. Luk - Poland (the state) is not happy to escape, it is just happy to join its natural Russophoic partners, the ones with Poland who were plotting against the SU all the time. You finally break bread with those, with an anti Russian mindset, to match your own! Birds of a feather flock together, as they say!

The level of historical knowledge in this discussion is impressively high; matched only by the height of the emotions behind it ! I'm also a historian, and say that history is tragically misunderstood on this planet. People have these heated debates, with political consequences, partly out of seeking justice but also because they fear that 'history repeats itself'. That's rubbish; any real historian will tell you that the real lesson is that history does NOT repeat itself; there's progress in, inter alia, international affairs ... the primitivism of bilateralism (non -aggression pacts etc), that whole 'tangled web', has been replaced by the wisdom of multilateralism (UN, G20 etc). So let's just put history to bed, as a political factor; leave it as a lesson in the trajectory of human progress