WWII remembered while Putin’s eye on Poland
Published: 31 August, 2009, 17:18
Edited: 16 April, 2010, 03:45
History should be a basis for peace and partnership between nations. Ahead of the 70th anniversary of the outbreak of World War II, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has laid out his view of the global tragedy.
All this wich hunt was organized by mostly Usa money in Baltics,Ukraine,Georgia amd Poland.Museum for victims of comunism,truth,holodorom-or whatever is call,nazis egalite stalinism and so on! It start as Usa project to distract Russia from living in peace(also to stop Europe United-old Anglo-Saxon policy divide and rule) and advance in economy-security etc.Before 2 world war Ukraine (west)start killing Russian civil population,Baltics-well documented follow the same(been neutral),Poland kill in 1920 1000 of Russian solders-prisoners and so on...Poland blame Russia for pact with Hitler 1939 but not blame England and France(all west) for Munich pact 1938 wich give permision for Germany to occupation of Poland?! What happend Usa know it will be burn badly by Russia(Usa future safety depend sole on Russia)-cut support for all of those states(anyway west always got some meat to offer-like stupid Shaakashvili-to Russia) also will move missile-ABM somewhere else to please Russia...West always use and abuse those states true history..Well known west" suport" is Sweden war agains Russia wich lost-part of Poland,Baltics states,Finland and Norway or Otoman Empire(700 y. old) "supported"by west to wage war on Russia was break in 15-20 states! Those states(Poland etc) look one tiny part of history-Russia can put claim from 800 y ago when those same states wage endless , genocide aggresive, unprovoken, first wars on Russia(no other way around)!Anyway they will have a chance to talk with mr.Putin and I hope they will find a common language for a common European good!
Yes Russia owes the human being collective consciousness an apology, and especially the MONEY behind the power called "USSR" since this is the tap root of all problems: MONEY does not talk it screams and unfortunately the money tap root has been the same ugliness for eons. Thus, Prime Minister Putin in the 21st Century is not responsible for the money changers who have been at this (1948, DUBAI was purposely set up for this time, CITI was and is the debt slave master selling credit from the BERNANKE mouse that quickly with the flick of a moment manufactures digits which lie, kill and steal with full immunity and impunity), and therefore, the Russian Federation has come to stand for an intelligent view of this practice? Let us in this time not be so stupid as to think that a money system is not in place as the greatest slave master in the history of all humans, other than the fact that the scorpion glows radioactive in the dark and is 100 million years old. Hmmm, is Vladimir Putin responsible for this action too? PLEASE HUMAN BEINGS AWAKEN to the fact, that, the digital system of slavery is here to stay unless we realize our flesh is not for sale. STOCK TRADING OF MONGRELS vs. THOROUGHBREDS happens to be the sleight of hand which TRANSNATIONAL CORPORATIONS are responsible for as RULERS over all life on this earth. In a word, insane. Thankfully there are still sane humans (Putin, Medvedev, Lavrov ... A.Gorky Armenian GREAT GREAT artist!) who can synapse in their brains and recollect the whole truth for the human species to finally begin to SEE THE WHOLE COMPOSITION and therefore, progress in the 21st Century rather than continue on in the HOR east and HOR west IDEA/S locked and loaded with all their miscreants to keep us pre-Magna Carta.
I have come to ignore the utter nonsense of sick people who live in their fantasy world and refuse to be confused by facts. It just struck me that there are 600,000 Soviet soldiers who died fighting the Nazis and are buried in Poland. Let us remember too, that while the Soviet Union suffered 25,000 deaths and the devastation of 85,000 towns and villages, the total number of American soldiers who died on all fronts during WWII was about the same as that of the Soviet soldiers who died in Poland alone. It was the Soviet Union that saved the world from Nazism, and it will be Russia again at the forefront of those who will save us from the meltdown that the imperialist west has immersed us in. The Russians have always stood for peace and harmony in the world, notwithstanding the pathological utterances emanating from some circles of the Baltics, where "democracy" and poverty are now ruling supreme, thanks to the generosity of their western "friends."
@Marzipan6 "Baltics, at the very least expressed human condolence to their people for the agony which Soviet power had brought to them, the wounds of which are still open? And thanked them that under their own governments they have never treated Russians like Russians, under the Soviet Moscow, once treated them?" Apart from helping install Communism in Russia aiding Lenin in his coup of 1917 with the Latvian red riflemen and higher senior representation in the Bolshevik government than ethnic Russians. According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . . there were in 1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts (Latvians), 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Khazars. What about Georgia its was the Georgian Stalin and NKVD boss Beria plan and order to invade the Baltics?
Come on, Marzipan! We have already established the point: All the Baltics were basically Nazis, they were united with Hitler's Germany in attacking USSR, and committed many crimes during WWII against humanity as to the Russian civilians. Therefore, their suffering after the WWII under the Communists is probably exactly what your Baltic people deserved. And now, you repeatedly demand from Putin, Medvedev, all Russians, to apologize to Baltics? What for? For the crimes that you, the Balts, made against the same very Russians? By continuously repeating your demand you will surely not change anything for all European nations know it very well which side during the WWII you were on. Let alone the involvement of Baltic nations in the process of extermination of Jews. Should the Jews also apologize to Balts for that?
I have become convinced that without the combined efforts of the Russians in the east and the rest of the Allies in the west, Germany could have beat us all in WWII. Even with the Russians throwing themselves by the millions at German artillery in the east, the Germans still had strength in the west to almost push us off Omaha beach in Normandy, and we almost lost the Battle of the Bulge. Right when we thought we had the Germans on the run, they turned around and pushed us back. And how long would the defenders of Stalingrad and Leningrad have lasted, if all the might of the German armies had attacked Russia at once? The war in Europe was a near thing. We couldn't have won without Russia's sacrifice, and I wonder if Russia would have won without the rest of the Allies distracting Hitler in the west. I've read in more than one history that Germans make formidable opponents. Let us hope we don't have to test that again. Also, I don't think we in the USA and Russia hear enough of each other's history.
Vladimir, Spot on, It is well established that the Baltic nations were fully part of the Nazi war machine, especially in Estonia, where their whole nation was organised as a Nazi war machine covering their SS units, Self defence units and auxilary police. The Baltic Nazis accounted for over 500,000 Soviet deaths with over 65,000 Soviet prisoners of war executed. However, the whole point of Putin's visit, should be to establish Russia today, this isn't the Soviet Union yesterday, Russia today needs defend the historical facts, but also move on with an onward trajectory, it needs to prioritise, concerning who wants to deal with Russia equtably, and who wants to live in a Russophobic dimension. Russia needs to look after its interests. like any nation, we have limited resources, so we better apply those resources, to give us the best return on investment. Spending resources on relationship management with Poland, may be better spent in Africa, LATAM, the far east or anywhere else, that brings Russia benefits. We just need secure borders!
MEJanssen - I share your view that it took a collosal effort to defeat all the Nazis and their fellow Axis powers. What was done to defeat the Nazis, was humanity stepping up to the mark, the Allies showed the resolve, they united, and their combined efforts vanquished the enormous Nazi evil that visited this earth. We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to all the Allies that made this happen. Without a defeat of the Axis powers, there would be no Poland, no Ukraine, no UK........ All of them would have been just used, then their citizens exterminated from the planet as Nazification was applied, progressively across the world. There would be no public pressure to bring it under control, because the guy with the moustache, was happy to get rid of the public en masse. Thanks to them all!
What Putin forgets is that the soviets hid many documents from everyone including their own people in recent years material has been released; now historians have this information a clearer picture is immerging which makes rewriting the history of WW11 unavoidable. I think his comment that history is being “rehashed” for political reasons is unfounded and slightly paranoid.
What Putin knows, is that he has a ton of documents, that will raise the lid off the whole Eastern European facade of historical manipulation against Russia. The end game has began enjoy! He is on white now, just watch the moves unfold.
Count Cash If there would be such striking evidence You think there is, then it would be used long time ago when debate was much more heated. I wonder why Russia doesn`t want to declassify documents about Katyn massacre? What they have to hide? Poland never hid anything - all the dark spots in polish history are declassified long ago. You can find everything about polish partition of Lithuania and Czechoslovakia, non-aggression pact with Germany, secret pact with Romania against USSR, comintern proposals - everything is well documented, because Poland has nothing to hide. It is Russia who is afraid to show truth - not that really someone in Poland cares aside from a bunch of nationalist historians.
This is not the case with any other types of historical evidence, but it is a common practice in any military archives to set a "may be declassified in ** years" number on secret documents, such as the ones Russian Intelligence published just recently. If these are for example, intelligence documents, naturally they may contain sensitive information about intelligence practices, agents, secret addresses and so on. Military intelligence doesn't usually brake it's procedures just to make a point in some overheated historical discussion, so i guess new documents on WW2 might continue to appear in the near future. So i guess "rewriting history" is quite possible in near future. But only due to new evidence, and whatever new documents may be revealed, i believe none of it will be enough to lesser the sacrifice and achievement of those who fought the fascist reich.
This is the first time I have felt less optimistic about Putin's power in the World. I HOPE it does not last. The World needs him. I hope, hope that he does not let us all down.
It is not a question of "rehashing history." The truth about Katyn must be brought out into the open very soon. For over sixty years the World has been lied to about Katyn. It was NOT the Germans who murdered twenty thousand of Poland's best people, in cold blood, it was Stalin who ordered that bloodthirsty massacre. WHY has the World been lied to about this, even during the Cold War times???
But, also, the Russians, under Stalin (who was not a Russian at all but a Georgian Jew whose real name was Djugashvilli) over ran Eastern Europe - and guess what - they took over all those camps too. They took over Ausschwitz-Birkinau and they built a great big chimney, a free standing chimney, attached to nothing at all, and they made out for a long time that it was the dreaded chimney of the dreaded crematorium used for the millions supposedly murdered by the Germans. Considering the lie about Katyn which has gone of for more than sixty years one has to wonder about all those camps, and what was the truth about them.
I hope and pray that Putin and all great leaders of Russia will come out with all of the truth so that they can be on honest and trusting, confident terms with Poland and all the neighbours of Russia. I really would like to see Russia safe and secure and happy - at peace with all the surrounding countries. But, how can that be while there is this frightening history being hidden away from the World?
Kindest regards to Astraea for her (or his) great comment. It is sad that the most beautiful and worthy ideas are disregarded by so many... I can only guess. And the only answer I can think of is: politicians. Selfish, power-hungry politicians. Now, I'm not a historian nor a politician - I pay a lot of interest in both though. Call me silly and naive but I believe in friendship between countries that are so closely related, with such similar language and culture such as: Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia… and Others... for the sake of…. Future! Let's let the historians do their job about the Past, and let's give them independence in doing so - We should never let politicians do historians job - It's like asking for trouble! Being a "Polak", I can't deny the weight of the fact that over 20 thousand of our officers and noble citizens had been murdered by Soviets in Katyn. I would however like to point out that: Those Were Soviet officers! and NOT the Russian folk, who had No say in that! My grandfather (Polish Officer during both World Wars) had been murdered in the same fashion by a polish! communist. Truth be told, the guy that shot him was “endorsed” by soviets. History is tricky, isn’t it? I don’t claim to know much about history. I only say: Take It Easy! What happened 70 years ago should not part people Now! I live in Australia since 3 years. I don’t love it, but there’s One good thing about it: I gained distance to my Patriotism – I can tell where my Patriotism ends and Nationalism begins. I love My country, as much as I love my roots – and my roots are are all Slavic. Hence, I treat any and every Slav I meet as Brother or Sister. …and simply hope for the best That’s how stupid and committed I am to an I idea that I hope at least some of you will at least dignify with a smile Cheers to all! Karol K.
Please forgive the fact my post doesn't stick together at times. Thing is: I had to trim it down to fit the limits of this forum rules - I might have been a bit reckless whilst cutting but that's only 'cause I'm tired and I want to hit the pillow Now...










Has Putin attempted to explain how Stalinist mass terror brought “liberty” to a formerly neutral and independent Estonia in 1940-41, and enhanced that “liberty” by even greater terror after 1945? Has he tried to explain why a resistance to this horror means that the resisters had to be Nazis, only Nazis and nothing but Nazis? Has he tried to explain exactly how this gross oppression nevertheless equalled liberty for Estonia and its Baltic neighbours? Or would that also be a rewriting of history? Would it involve a re-writing of history if after leaving Poland Putin visited the Baltics, at the very least expressed human condolence to their people for the agony which Soviet power had brought to them, the wounds of which are still open? And thanked them that under their own governments they have never treated Russians like Russians, under the Soviet Moscow, once treated them? It would be a wonderful step towards reconciliation if he did.