We need to overcome Stalinist views on history – Polish FM
Published: 30 June, 2009, 12:43
“We have issues to do with history: we don’t accept Stalinist historical views and we need to overcome them,” Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski said in an interview with RT.
Absolutely right approach, an academic diplomatic approach, rather than the amateur hate driven individuals, reaearching in their secluded little lives, with Wiki and Google! Well done to Poland and Russia for taking the right step forward. It's the only way to stop propaganda nonsense and inflaming and creating dangerous situations for Europe. We had enough of that with the Nazis.
Poland isn’t the only country that finds Russia’s continued embrace of Stalinist history to be absolutely unacceptable. More or less all of Eastern Europe feels the same way. CountCash may be pleased to know that Estonia has long proposed a committee of Russian and Estonian academics to analyse Estonia’s Soviet history in a scholarly way, but Russia has always refused this. Furthermore, Russia has increasingly restricted access to scholars to Soviet era archives, especially those dealing with the 1940s and 1950s, and augmented this with Medvedev’s “Commission Against Falsifying History” whose approximately 28 members comprise military and security officials, Kremlin-minded Duma members, and just three lonely historians, none of whom are held in high professional regard by fellow-historians. As Russia would not participate on a bilateral basis, Estonia commissioned a prominent international committee to investigate and prepare a report on all crimes against humanity committed in Estonia under both Nazi and Soviet occupations. After approximately 8 years of work, it has written its reports. Those who are interested may find these by googling “history commission Estonia”. Stalin’s terrorization of Russian people was so extreme, his generations-long brainwashing of them so intense and so many careers and reputations have been built on maintaining and administering those lies, that it seems Russia simply cannot tear itself free of some of some of them now. Hence it relations with its neighbours are such as they are.
@Marzipan .. yes stalin did some horrible things ..and we all hate him. But those countires ... estonia etc .. are no better ... embrace Stalinists history ???? ... well it seems that somebody has brainwashed you aswell.
The main problem that I see regarding this is that too many Poles still view Russia and Russians through a Soviet Era cold war lens. They see Russia and Russians like it is still 1948. This view has already caused unneeded tensions between the two sides, and has also cost Poland economically. Working out these historical issues in a normal way with no emotional tantrums is a good move on both countries part.
What is so good about the Polish Russian joint action, is its inclusiveness, it has a chance, with agreement on both sides to become the history, rather than a history for one and a history for another. This is the essential technical, academic and political framework that always has to exist to arrive at the history. This being a common view of the past. It is impossible to form the history, without this joint process and dialogue. Working on your own in a unilateral fashion, can never create the history, it can just create a history, which could be as accurate or poisoned, depending on the motivation behind it. Such a unilateral history is worthless as representing the history, but can if it is reasonably balanced, at least serve as a position paper that can be refereed and entered into negotiation, as part of a process leading to the history being developed. It is impossible to form the history through any panel of experts, experts are bought just like sweets in a shop, the lawyer, you hire, he acts in your interest, so does the historian too. Experts need to eat too. They also never exist outside of their political environment, they are attached at the very hip, it is what feeds them too. A western historian, is a western historian, an eastern one an eastern historian. That is the simple fact. Ignore it and you ignore the real world, you enter the fantacy world. The real world recognises bias in all walks of life, we know of it, and actively install institutional safeguards, because we know it exists. In a court, there is a defence and a prosecution. We accept, in the case, the facts, will be presented in different ways, with a different gloss, the facts are like bricks. One can build a house, the other a villa. What is important, is that if you want a joint house, you better agree, how those bricks are arranged. Nothing wrong with separate houses, but respect and recognise them as such, we live in a community, and beware of what you are buying!
Truth is, we need to overcome Vatican politics and lies.
@Marzipan6 I would like to see how you explain that the Chosen peoples high representation in the soviet satellite states there secret police, interrogators, etc that the top spies abroad, activists and foreign financial backers etc foreign media, propaganda and financial recruitment organisations were of the same tribe. As far as Katyn goes like other Bolsheviks and NKVD the chief mass murderer a one time lived in Tel Aviv as well as Solomon Morel who ran German POW camp in Poland and personally murdered and tortured thousands of Germans. And who was the head of the NKVD. I’ll also mention they ran the Gulag system, press industry, economy, etc. We could also mention current events like US trained and equipped KLA terrorists that have murdered tortured, killed and ethically cleansed tens of thousands of Serbs nearly the whole ethnic Serb population of Kosovo and destroyed hundreds of ancient Churches.
To Alex who wrote, “yes Salin did some horrible things ..and we all hate him.” That’s strange – in a country-wide poll within the last 12 months, Stalin was narrowly beaten into third place as the most popular figure in Russia. As for examples of Russia continuing to embrace Stalinist history, the Kremlin’s spin on Soviet Moscow’s 1939 attack against Poland its 1940 invasion of the Baltics is a word-perfect repetition of Stalin’s lies of the time, and have nothing in common with real history
To Paul: If you believe that too many Poles still view Russia within a 1948 prism, that might be because Russia hasn’t done nearly enough to repudiate and disavow the crimes of its Soviet past, and to reconcile with neighbouring countries. If Germany had done just as little to disavow its Nazi past, its relations with its neighbours would probably be quite similar to Russia’s current situation. The crimes against humanity which Russia’s neighbours experienced through the Soviet era had both victims and its victimisers. The victims were Russia’s neighbours; the victimisers were predominantly Russians in the service of the Soviet state. The problems came from Russia, and so must the solutions. But Russia has never been able to get its head around that reality.
To JohnX – the answer to your question remains exactly the same as I have offered on numerous other occasions to exactly the same question.
@marzipan .. the polls are highly unreliable ... there are probably people from abroad voting ... people like yourself . And by the way Poles and the other baltic countries are not innocent eather .. why not bring up their dark hystory aswell .
Alex is eager to read of the “dark history” of the Baltics. Estonia is first mentioned in history in the 1st Century AD by the Roman historian Tacitus. From that time until now, there is no record in any history of pogroms conducted by Estonians in the country against anyone. Under German occupation when the country had no government of its own, a very few Estonians did participate in German war crimes. Although this was never the expression of any policy of Estonia, nonetheless Estonia has apologised many times for this. Estonia observes an annual Holocaust Day in which the President traditionally lays a wreath at a memorial to Holocaust victims. Something similar also happens in Latvia and Lithuania. But where in Russia is the monument to the thousands upon thousands of Baltic victims of Soviet Russia? Which Russian President has ever laid flowers there? Which has ever even offered simple condolences to the Baltics on their annual day of mourning day of June 14? In that one 24-hour period in 1941, Soviet Russians deported around 30,000 innocent Baltic civilians to Siberian slavery in cattle wagons. Many more than that were also deported after 1945, and most never returned.
Marzipan6- Twice Told Tales, Thrice Told Tales….Propaganda can be very boring, you know!
@marzipan ... it's funny to see how you're jumping from one thing to another avoiding curtain things. Your president is apologizing every year and lying some flowers .. lol ... but there also nazi veterans parades lol . And why are you avoiding poles .. they've done some gruesome things too before the 1939.
Our history of the planet has many records of the evil that men do,the question is, has the human race learnt anything,probably not,And what about the main factor which create situations,ie Like inequalities ,and the devious broadcasters that pander to ignorance and uneducation,do you hear any controvsey.about ignorance and uneducation,who controls the garbage that the broadcasters and media they bombard society with.any answers.?
What is so reasuring is that so many people can spot the propoganda easily. That is the absolute beauty of the internet, free expression and free thought, based on free research. It is a privilege to see on this subject. This is the insurance against a return of the Nazis. I am impressed. Also what is good to see is countries, like Poland and Russia engaging in dialogue to try to solve differences, it is the correct diplomatic approach, it speaks volumes for the mature way to go about things. Think, in real life, if you wanted a dialogue with someone, where the relationship is a bit strained and you wanted to resolve something delicate, would you a) Knowing they had millions and millions killed by the Nazis, erect a monument in glory of the Nazis, or would you b) Either try to avoid the issue or acknowledge that a Nazi past is unacceptable to potray in any positive way whatsoever. Choice (a) has been the approach taken by other countries, and lets be honest, to any sane person, it just is not going to work. You may have a strained relationship before, but now you have got a diplomatic war. Stupid yes, irresponsible yes! So again a pat on the back for Poland and Russia, going the right way about things!
To Alex: Indeed the incidence of anti-Semitism in pre-War Poland was grim. I don’t think that anyone, including Poles, have denied this. It is now the turn of Russians to acknowledge their Soviet-era crimes. Regarding Baltic “Nazi veterans parades,” you have sourced this slant from Russian propaganda. The following true: (1) Totalitarianism in all its forms, whether of the right or left, was and is odious to Estonia and its Baltic neighbours. (2) The Baltics were occupied by the Nazis, but were not Nazis and did not have Nazi sympathies. (3) Because Soviet Russia savaged them so murderously in 1940-41, when the Red Army was on its way back towards the end of the War many Baltic men fought against their returning in the only effective way that they could, namely, within the German military. (5) Baltic people celebrate those who gave their lives to try to save them from the Soviet horror – after all, for 50 years they were unable to say “thank you” to them. They do not celebrate Naziism. (9) When Russia characterises these as “Nazi parades” it offers a gross and offensive insult to the Baltic people. Russian aggression against Finland likewise drove Finns to fight the Red Army alongside Germans. This does not mean that Finns were Nazis.It is interesting to note that Russia never criticizes Finland for commemorating their WW2 veterans, despite the fact that Finland was an official ally of Nazi Germany. Russian understands that it was its own own aggression that drove Finland into a German alliance,and that Finns were not Nazis. Unlike Finland, Baltic countries weren’t even allies of Germany, but occupied peoples who not only had no national governmentor policies at the time.Yet Russia constantly smears them as “Nazis.”. Unlike with Finland, Moscow has an interest in discrediting the Baltics to divert attention from its own crimes of occupation there.
To CountCash: First, I don’t know of anyone who is erecting any monuments glorifying Nazis. Russia and its apologists talk endlessly about such supposed monuments, but hardly ever give any specific examples. On the rare occasions that they attempt to, an examination of the monument in question clearly shows it is not Nazi monument and does not celebrate anything Nazi. However, propaganda hysteria sometimes seems to take on a life of its own, and offensively ignorant and baseless comments about “Nazi monuments” continue. Secondly, CountCash refers to dialogue, apparently with Russia. It takes two to dialogue; a monologue can be provided by just one. The reality is that Russia does not seek a genuine exchange of opinions; it rather seeks to impose its own viewpoints on others, and gets mightily annoyed when this does not work. At that point it does no more talking, only shouting. Remember its performance in regard to the Estonian Bronze Soldier affair of two years ago? This proclivity of Russia’s did not begin yesterday. Russia has a centuries’ long history and tradition of totalitarianism, where alternate views were not only not tolerated, but murderously suppressed.
Poland has indeed found dialogue with Russia, showing dialogue is possible to establish, if you simply stop shouting and antagonising. If one party can find dialogue with a person, whilst another cannot, then it shows that the one who cannot is the one at fault, or has some more negative characteristics. They may lack the skills and maturity required of modern diplomacy, or have hurt the other party very much. It is a simple fact really. Poland has the maturity to succeed, but it also does have the advantage that it didn't fight with the Nazis as other countries did, it doesn't erect Nazi glorifying monuments, it doesn't parade today as Nazis, and it wasn't seen as the most efficient place for killing jews, because of the enthusiastic willingness of the local poulation of other countries. Well done Poland, a country with diplomatic sense in the modern world.










Some of the history of Radek Sikorski, quoting from the new book "Full Spectrum Dominance." by the great writer ~William Engdhal You can find writing of his at globalresearch,.ca. "Significantly, the Polish Minister most involved - at least until February 2007 - in negitiating the placement of the provocative American missiles in Poland was Radek Sikorski. Soon after, Sikorski became Foreign Minister. The 44, year old Sikorski attended Oxford's Pembroke College in England and in 1984 had become a naturalized British citizen. He was also a full blown Polish neo-conservative who had returned to Poland to advance the agenda of Washington's neo-conservative hawks. Sikorski's Anglo-American career then took off in 1990 after the collapse of communism. He had been taken under the wing of neo-conservative backer Rupert Murdoch, the powerful billionaire owner of the London "Times" and the tabloid "Sun" and the aggressively neo-conservative Fox TV network in the USA. Sikorski advised Murdoch on investments in Poland. Despite his British citizenship, Sikorski was appointed to several junior posts in the Polish government, including deputy Defense Minister, and in 2002 he crossed the Atlantic for a job in Washington - working with "Prince of Darkness" Richard Perle. Sikorski became a Resident Fellow at Perle's American Enterprise Institute (AEI) where Perle secured Sikorski's promotion to Executive Director of the New Atlantic Initiative From there Sikorski returned to Poland as Minister of National Defense in 2005. The notable thing about Sikorski's stellar career, was that as Executive Director at the AEI's New Atlantic Initiative, he had prepared policy papers on NATO and anti-missile defense, i.e. NMD. The Pentagon's missile defense installations on Russia's perimeters in 2006 implemented the project that Sikorski friends in Washington had formulated a few years earlier. The US missile infrastructure in Est Europe was far and away the most reckless enterprise of a cabal that had already demonstrated it's bent for dangerous and foolish brinkmanship." Silorski is rprobally Jewish since Richard Perle and almost every single neo-con is Jewish and they are not likely to give important jobs to Gentiles - unless they are just making use of them, and this may be the case here. He does have Russia in a corner here because it seems it was the Russians, led exclusively by Jews (Stalin was a Georgian Jew married to the sister of the ghastly inhuman or subhuman Kaganovich) and the Russian people do now know this yet. It was the Russian Jews who murdered all the doctors, lawyers, professors of all kinds, priests - everyone with an education, including all the army officers and the nobility. I think it was around 26 thousand good and decent people they murdered in that Forest of Katyn. There is a film out about it now, for the first time telling the truth. IT WAS NOT THE GERMANS ! It was also the Russians who falsified the evidence about the concentration camps. In Auschwitz they even built a big chimney whihc was connected to nothing at all, trying to make it look as though there had been huge gas ovens there. The Jews have been tellling thw rold that four million of them died in Aushcwitz - but they broght the number down and down and down again until now it is more lilke seventy five thousand according a young Jew called David Coleman who investigated on the site itself. Again, it was not the Germans! Look up David Coleman's video about Auschwitz. I think that this Sikorski is using leverage over Sergey Lavrov and Russia over this, threatening to make it all public, that it was Russians who were responsible for Katyn. It does have to come out and the sooner the better. The whole World needs to know exactly who was responsible for all that horror - and the whole World needs to know who is going to be punished for the invasion of Iraq and the torture in the USSA. (It is now the United Soviet Republic of America and it is ruled by the very same monsters who ruled Russia for seventy years!) In fact, it iw Larry Summers who is presently stealing America blind - the very same Larry Summers who organized and oversaw the theft of Russia's wealth during the time of Yeltsin and the Oligarchs! THE VERY SAME MAN.