We heard that Clinton wants to block the resolution. I think that she can't make any decision by herself. The Armenian Genocide has been at the US House of Representatives already the second time and passed. Are we going to discuss this issue for the third time? It seem a kind of game for Politics. But very offended for Armenians. It is a GENOCIDE. If not decide it in favor Armenians means US wants it happen again and again like it happened with Serbs quite recently.

Turkey’s experiences arising from its refusal to bring resolution to the Armenian massacre should be a salutary lesson to Russia. But I wonder whether anyone in the Kremlin is noticing. For over 90 years Turkey has tried to walk past a colossal international crime, holding its mouth right and pretending that nothing has happened, and in so doing has brought only international shame, discredit and disgrace upon itself. Russia is applying exactly the same tactics to its Soviet-era crimes, not just to Stalin-era crimes, and it is producing just the same results. 90 years from now, probably even 190 years, these unatoned-for and often even unadmitted crimes for which Russia has sought no reconciliation with victims will continue to hang around Russia’s neck, frustrating its policies in whatever direction it turns, and shaming it anew. Russia may pretend to forget, but its victims cannot, and they will not allow the world to forget, lest Russia do it all over again.

Of course the US is not going to take any notice of politically orchestarted machinations by certain groups. The US in diplomatic terms knows they are meaningless, lacking legal validity and are counter productive. So the US administartion, I am sure, will realise the invalid nature of bringing this into diplomatic relations with Turkey, they will allow the debate, allow a statement, then promptly move forward with the serious business of tranatlantic diplomacy. The US knows there is a time and a place for these discussions between the parties affected. It knows the US can add little to this process , other than support, it certainly knows that interfering at national level, is counterproductive for everyone. So the White house will do the right thing, for itself and the affected parties. Sense always prevails in the end.

Oh, please, Marzipan, spare us the pontifical, moralistic bombast! Where can I find a resolution adopted that says the USA committed purposeful, systematic genocide on the Native Americans? Where is there a document that says the US Congress was complicit? If they are so concerned about genocide, let them look in the mirror, or look at all the American faces with Cherokee or Souix etc in them -- even the famous singer, Loretta Lynn is part Cherokee. This massacre of Areminians in the midst of the collapse of the Ottoman empire occurred at the end of World War I. The full scale genocide on the Native Americans occured after the end of the US Civil war, which was in 1865, a civil war that was fought over the issue of extending either capitalist free farming and free labor or slavery into the Western Territories. The Native Americnas were slaughtered in the western territories of the USA, in the decades following the US Civil War, which my great grandfather fought in -- among those slaughtered earlier were my relatives as my great great grandmother and grandmother were Cherokees. This is about punishing Turkey for the deal with Russia over the gas pipe lines. This is about the USA threatening Turkey with turning her into an internatioinal pariah! The Congress is the stick, Hillary is the carrot. Someone better try to find out what the USA wants with Turkey; because last time they wanted Turkey to let them invade Iraq from the North via Turkey, and Turkey refused because we never paid them for the first Bush's invasion of Iraq and besides, the Turks were not about to help strengthen the Kurds in Northern Iraq.

US Congress is not somebody to decide over an issue like this,USA is not good friend.

Pauline, there are three important things I would like to bring to your attention in response to your post. (1) Nothing that the United States ever has or has not done in any way negates the fact that Turkey’s failure to seek genuine reconciliation over its mass crimes against humanity has proved to be an enormous handicap to it for over 90 year, and that Soviet Russia’s similar failure for even greater crimes against humanity has been an even greater handicap, and will probably continue to be for much longer than 90 years. Those where the points that I made. (2) But if we are to ask where is USA’s apology to its native peoples, even though this has no relevance whatever to the factuality of what I wrote about Turkey and Russia, please read Resolution “S.J.RES.37: Apology to Native Peoples,” a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in May 2004. It took me literally 3 minutes to locate this online. It would probably have taken you just as short a time had facts been as high a priority to you as ready-made conclusions. (3) A considered presentation of facts, whether about Turkey, Russia or the USA, is hardly a “pontifical, moralistic bombast.” Nor is a colourful denial of facts in the service of excusing crimes against humanity by Soviet Russia and Ottoman Turkey – that is anything but moral. Or falsely accusing the US of not apologising for its crimes against its native peoples. Or the failure to require the other nations to do likewise. So it would not be appropriate for me to accuse you of pontifical, moralistic bombast.

The fact were proven long before. Of course there were mass murders resulting of the civil war in Turkey of those times no turk can deny that. But that is only a weapon used to dicipline Turkey. We have to mention that some weeks ago the Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan refused to stay near the Israelian President at a Public Debate in Davos in protest to Isrealian treatment to Palestinians. Also Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan which at the top of the Turkish Political and Economical Establishment have Publicly declared that Western Powers and Israel is misstreatment and bulying policy over Iran is imoral, abusive and undignifying. Not by chance last weeks orior to the resolution in US Senate in Turkey a huge Turkey Police operation that have arested dosens of High Rank Military Oficers including Generals, Admirals for planing a military coup. This is the real key to read such a US Senate Resolution.

A Nation and a State that laid its entire foundation over Genocidal Extermination of an entire continent indigenous populations of many Nations -not only one as ot may sound into the brains of some- ...that state resolutes against another that have colapsed and another one took its place. Of course the crimes are crimes in those times Turkey as in those of today, as Total Extermination is for the rest of the world what Americans have produces over invaded natives in North America that happened for centuries. America also fought inumerable wars in the 20th Century and 21st from the fameous ones in Vietnam where they commited Colosal Crimes against Humanity resulting in 4 milion vietnamese dead, million wounded and bombed with entire America chemical weapons from infamous napalm, white phosforus and infamous Orange Agent that the Anerican Authorities refuses even today to publicly disclose the composition of this monstrous Chemical Weaponthat was so toxic that the jungle trees were exfoliated in seconds and rendered big portions of Vietnamese territory unhospitable for human and wild life and resulted in the folling decades with hundreds of thousand of malformations in intoxication. What about the US inflicted Millitary regines in Latin America that all of them were tortionary ones commiting Crimes against Hunanity that have ravaged the entitre continent. What about Africa??? US, UK, FRENCH lead civil wars and dictatorships from Sierra Leone, Liberia, Burkina, Niger, Nigeria, Mali, Sudan, Congo/Zair, to Somalia, where all the criminal movements were incited and provided with arms by western financed dealers ti inflict economical disaster towards the profit of the energy and mineral resourses of the failed african countries. The point is that Turkey or Russia have to learn to reconcile with their past but not from US . There are great examples of reconciliation in Scandinavia or EU and elsewhere but not at all US

I love this guy. He always makes me post. M6, I obviously can understand that your master at the moment is USA and you serve very diligently. That is OK. But do not you think that make a disservice to the master by mentioning the dates? You say yourself that for USA it took more than a century to issue non-binding apology for all out genocide. So according to your logic Russia should express apologies to Estonia in a run of the century (may be two). If we consider that no genocide was done, this time can be even longer. So why do you demand the apologies right now? And why do you demand apologies from Russia and Turkey but do not from UK, France, Holland, Spain, Dutch, just name a few. If I’m not mistaken in psychiatry they call it “fixation”

Pour le counoseurs How sounds for US Congres the bombardment with 10 thousand tonnes of bombs by American B52 Bombers over civilian Vinh Moc Village? The million victims of Irak Wars and bombardments with Nuclear/Uranium Depleted Weapons that have created a dreadfull conditons where one third of the new born babies from 2006 in Falujah distroyed in bombardments as above are born with dreadfull malfformations. I guess that they will consider it as Democracy Export. where the locals rights and duties are to dodge the american weapons.

Whereas I apparently have a talent to “make Vse.berlin post”, I clearly have no talent in helping Vse.berlin to acknowledge realities. The realities are that both Turkey and Russia are significantly handicapped in their relations with other countries by their unacknowledged and unatoned-for international crimes from the Ottoman and Soviet eras. The reality also is that Pauline, who claimed that the US never apologised for crimes against its native population (she brought up the subject, I didn’t), was 100% wrong. The reality further is, that at no time was I attempting to run some kind of comparison or contest between USA and Russia. However, since Vse.berlin imputes severe defects to the US and glowing strengths to Russia, it should take very much less than USA’s 200 years for such a Russia to do the right and decent thing in regard to its Soviet-era crimes.

March 10, 2010, 12:49, Marzipan6 wrote > Whereas I apparently have a talent to “make Vse.berlin post”, I clearly have no talent in helping Vse.berlin to acknowledge realities. The realities are that both Turkey and Russia are significantly handicapped in their relations with other countries by their unacknowledged and unatoned-for international crimes from the Ottoman and Soviet eras. Umm no. I cannot see that either Turkey or Russia is handicapped in any way. From my point of view demanders of apologies are handicapped. Instead of moving on they put the fingers in the old wounds and scream loud. Everyone suffered in the run of the century why would you make division into first-sort victims and second-sort. If you tell about so called suffering of Estonians to, let’s say, Philippians I’m pretty sure they will gladly will trade the places with you. In reality all these demands for apologies, badmouthing are just the tools for politicians. Like Glad rightly notices demands are instrumental to punish Turkey for non compliance. If we make parallels we will find all your demands in the same stream. What I want to say is that you are playing others games. Or should I say you are played in the game of others. Does it make you happier? Well, may be. But one day you will wake up and will find out that Russia did not disappear from the map and you are still neighbors, and you do share the same history with all the good and bad moments. May be this morning you will understand that it is better to have a friendly neighbor. Right now you choose to have a friendly outlander and furious neighbor. Probably you get some kick in that. Who knows, but please keep it up. It is a fun to watch it.

Everyone may have suffered in the course of the last Century. But not everyone caused equal suffering. Nor does anyone choose what kind of neighbours they have. All have full responsibility for their own behaviour. It has been the experience of the Baltics through most of their long history that their large Eastern neighbour chooses to be unfriendly regardless of what the Baltics do or don’t do.