One way to curb the existing threat from the European jihadist fighters is to monitor them upon their return from warzones, Gilles de Kerchove, European Union Counter-terrorism Coordinator told RT.
Most EU member countries, Kerchove says, adopt a mixed approach
in dealing with the radicalization threat, including
psychological counseling for victims, and closer border
cooperation with North African States.
RT:Where does radicalization stand right now – is it
getting substantially worse?
Gilles de Kerchove: Radicalization in Europe – it is not much
different from the past. We are in the process of trying to
understand better the reason why so many Europeans are going to
Syria. We start with the idea that they are not all radicals when
leaving because some maybe just driven by idealistic ideas and
they just want to be helpful. Some are just joining refugee camps
and rarely may join the most radical groups.
But where we start being concerned is when, and that is what we
understand, many of them are mainly joining the groups affiliated
to Al-Qaeda and groups which not only want to withdraw Assad but
have the global jihad rhetoric and share fully the project of
Al-Qaeda.
And therefore we think, I think we’ll see that in the future but
that many of them will get back in Europe much more radical. They
may inspire others, recruit others, or they may, some, even
direct attacks in Europe and that’s why all member states are
very mobilized by this subject.
RT:Can we say that the fear of terrorists from outside
is not to become a threat from inside?
GK: In fact the terrorist threat has evolved a lot since
9/11 in recent years. It is no longer one, single organization,
very well structured like Al-Qaeda was on 9/11. It is something
that is much more diversified, much more diverse. We still have
the Al-Qaeda, but of course the core of Al-Qaeda has been very
much degraded. But we have different other manifestations.
We have a proliferation of franchises and all services believed
that the most dangerous one which still has the intent and the
capability to mount attack in the West it is AQAP Al-Qaeda in the
Arabian Peninsula. But we have other franchises which are pretty
dangerous – Al Shabaab, AQIM terrorists in the Maghreb, Al Qaeda
in Iraq and so forth.
And we have two other phenomenon indeed. Youngsters who live in
Europe who go abroad for training purposes or to fight and
getting back to Europe more motivated and more radical and for
some – very few, but some of them – with the intent to mount
attack in Europe.
And we have the so-called lone actor, very few are completely
alone, they may be part of a virtual community and many of them
get radicalized on the internet or they belong to a movement,
Salafist movement. We have had attacks in the southern part of
France in Toulouse where Mohammed Merah got radicalized in prison
but he went to Pakistan, he went to Egypt and carried out these
attacks when he came back.
So I would not say that the threat is coming only from outside,
the threat is coming only from inside. It is a bit of a mix of
the two.
RT:Some say that people get radical without going to
Syria –online people can be radicalized. What is the main
motivation for the new recruits – money? Thrill?
GK: In respect to Syria, we are looking at this. I do not
have a comprehensive answer. We know that some of them, as I’ve
said are driven by just idealistic motivation. They want to be
helpful, they think they have to help their brothers in Syria,
their Sunni brothers. And therefore, they just want to bring
their forces.
They are not necessarily driven by religion, it is a question of
promoting democracy. We all remember that they all start with
sort of Arab Spring-type of uprising and it turns into a civil
war exploited by the most extremist groups related to Al-Qaeda.
Some others are already pretty radical and that is the case in
some of the member states – take Belgium and the Netherlands.
Most likely they have been recruited by an organization called
Sharia for Belgium in Belgium and Sharia for the Netherlands. So
they are recruiting the people already pretty radical.
Is money an argument? Probably some may get money just to cover
the travel, which is not expensive by the way. You can just buy a
very cheap flight to Turkey. You may get support there. Your
family may get support. But I do not think that money is that
much a motivation. So it is a mix of radical ideas and idealism
in a way.
RT:Are there a well-known ways/channels to recruit in
EU?
GK: We have 9-10 member states out of the 28 having some
citizens leaving. It is not only Belgium and France, it is the
Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Spain, Germany, Ireland and it
differs from one country to the other.
I mention Belgium and the Netherlands because there we have
identified an organization, in other countries it is more people
leaving on their own. And some– when they are there – are trying
to advertise the jihad. If you see the active presence of these
youngsters on Facebook, it is quite telling. They are pretty
narcissist. They want to be seen with a Kalashnikov and try to
invite friends to join.
So it is a sort of peer process. So you have either external
recruitment, just own initiative peer dynamic, or – but that is
the main – some network. We are looking into this. We’ve asked
different agencies to look into this.
RT:Spain is concerned being the first step between
Africa and EU. What are they to fear?
GK: In fact, of course Spain is worried, but it is the
same for many other member states. And I would not say, on the
basis of the figures that I have, that Spain has quite a high
figure of Jihadists going to Syria. But indeed Spain is close to
North Africa and we have cases where people have two passports –
European one, Spanish one, and a Moroccan one – and it is much
easier for them to fly below the radar. Because they can enter
Morocco with a Moroccan passport and then go to Turkey and then
Syria and get back with the Spanish passport. And maybe they will
go there and return undetected.
So it is of critical importance that we collectively as a
European Union, we engage more with the countries in the North of
the Mediterranean. We know that there is a fairly high number of
Tunisians for instance who have joined the fight in Syria. And we
start engaging with this country and brainstorm together on how
to address the problem.
RT:Some suggest making it a crime to join jihadists – so
upon their return they could face criminal charges. Is it the
right way to address the issue?
GK: In fact what the member states are now doing is to set
up a mechanism to assess each case on its merit, if I may say so.
So it would be up to a sort of multiagency evaluation where
people would determine what the best answer should be.
It could be either to provide psychological assistance because
some of these people will get back completely demobilized – they
have been confronted to an ugly war, they were not prepared to
this and so they will need some support. Social support,
psychological support could be one response.
Another one is just to monitor them discretely. But you cannot
monitor people on the 24/7 basis. It is very demanding in terms
of resources.
And others need to be brought to court. And that is why we have
asked Eurojust agency for judicial cooperation, to look into
different legislation to make sure it has in its criminal law an
adequate offense of going abroad for the jihad. And that for
instance what the French have discovered after the Merah attack,
that they had no adequate legislation and that they later on
adopted this legislation. So it is not the only answer, but of
course I think it should be just one part of the tool kit.
RT:How real is the threat that the young men returning
from a conflict like Syria will commit a terror attack in EU
simply by having returned as a ‘radicalized’ individual?
GK: I don’t have a crystal ball of course and there is
risk, we should not hide this. This is the reason why we need to
be prepared and concentrating as well on preventing the flow of
jihadists. But monitoring better and being better prepared for
the returnees. And I of course I do not suggest that every
returnee may mount an attack, that is not the case and that is
why we have to offer a set of answers, tailor made for each and
every case. But the more we have fighters the more it’s likely
that we will be confronted with a terrorist attack and therefore
we had better be prepared and start working on this right now.
The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.