UK security services ‘completely out of control’
The UK security services are overrun with incompetence and vested business interests, without being subject to checks themselves, British investigative journalist Tony Gosling told RT.
An extension of their powers and surveillance capabilities
following the Woolwich tragedy will not benefit the UK populace.
MI5 has kept tabs on numerous terrorists who have followed
through with successful attacks, despite surveillance, without
anyone stepping in to stop the perpetrators. Where are the checks
on their capabilities, Gosling asks, and why has nobody yet
stepped forward to offer explanations or been held to account?
RT:We’ve seen extremist groups like the English Defence
League react, but are we now at a point where we’re seeing
tolerant moderate people now turning against their Muslim
neighbors?
Tony Gosling: It seems to be happening; it’s extremely
worrying. But let’s not forget that the Western intelligence
services have been involved in criminal acts in the past that
have fueled this kind of sectarian violence which seems to be
beginning here in Britain. There are some serious questions that
MI5 have got to answer about what happened last week in London in
Woolwich - first of all condolences go to Lee Rigby’s family -
and the horrendous part of all of that is that how did these guys
who were right at the very top of the terror watch list, how on
Earth did they not get spotted preparing for some kind of terror
act? Was their car bugged for example – this is one question that
hasn’t been answered.
MI5 have gone very quiet on all these kinds of topics. How did
they get ammunition? How did they get a revolver? Have they been
following Lee? These kinds of questions. They’ve got something
like 4,000 staff, MI5, and if they can’t keep an eye on the
people who are on the very top of the watch list then there needs
to be a real shakeup and heads need to roll there.
RT:The UK home secretary though, has said there needs now to be a look at the Communications Data Act – stronger powers of surveillance. That is necessary now, isn’t it? Because if you did have those stronger powers of surveillance then those guys may not have slipped through the net.
TG: Well, they would say that, wouldn’t they? No I don’t
think this is the right to be doing at all. We actually need to
have a look at who is to blame here. MI5’s job is to stop people
like this committing acts like this and they haven’t done it.
This isn’t the first time. If we go back to the London bombing in
2005, MI5 have been following these guys around as well. Now, all
fair play to them if they can stop some plots taking place, but
these guys were really at the top of the list, and if they can’t
stop these people then what are they there for? You go back even
to the ‘90s and the Bishopsgate bomb. We now know that MI5 were
following the IRA for days and in the months with this bomb
beforehand, and yet still allowed them to blow it up.
So the oversight of the security services really needs to be
looked at. And I think we need to have some serious changes in
the way it runs. The other thing is the oversight. MPs don’t
oversee MI5 and MI6. It’s actually civil servants that do and
they are then overseen by a handful of MPs including - what I
would suggest are rather lightweight MPs - pro-establishment like
Hazel Blears and Malcolm Rifkind. So there isn’t any proper
oversight. And what these intelligence services seem to do every
time is to hide behind the veil of national security: “We can’t
tell you what’s going on.” Even the inquiry that’s been
instituted into the failures of what happened last Wednesday is
going to be kept entirely secret. And I’m afraid it’s time for
them to come out from under their shells and get a proper looking
at so that this kind of thing really can’t happen again.
They’re not going to play this game, I can assure you, of saying
“We need more money, we need more power, and we need more
surveillance of the general population,” because they had all the
laws they needed to stop these people doing what they did last
Wednesday. They don’t need any more power whatsoever.
RT:But the government is doing something by setting up
a new terrorism task force to target hate preachers and
extremism. Now, doing that, wouldn’t that stop that sort of
violent act?
TG: I don’t actually think so. I think one of the things
which would stop it is William Hague pursuing this foreign policy
which bears no relevance to what the British people actually
want. It’s not in our interests to be trying to arm Al-Qaeda and
Syria as he’s been trying to do today over in Brussels.
Thankfully, most of the rest of Europe thinks it’s a ridiculous
concept and is not going to let him do it. We actually need to
have politicians who represent what we say rather than business
interests.
Back in the 1990s, MI5 was actually courting business interests
saying to HSBC “Would you like us to come and spy for you, to
give you information from our files?” They also said the same to
BAE Systems, one of the biggest arms manufacturers in the world.
I’m afraid this is an MI5 that’s completely out of control. They
just seem to do what they want and there’s no proper oversight of
our security services. Once you get this sort of situation you’ve
got the possibility of all sorts of things going on illegally. I
mean, for example, we had this interview that was done on the BBC
last Friday evening, where the chap, as he’s being interviewed,
Special Branch turn up at the BBC and arrest him as soon as he’s
coming out. Now, you can’t just arrest people for telling their
own version – friends of terrorists - about various stories to do
with….for example, this chap that committed this act it looks
like, last Wednesday, having been tortured and attempted to be
recruited by MI5, the public needs to know these things.
And we, as parliamentarians as well, need to know these things if
they’re going to have any proper oversight of our security
services. And we really need to do that, if we’re going to
have any kind of real anti-terror operation in this country – we
need to have accountable security services. Because at the moment
we don’t have at all.
RT:Does this draw attention to the public on Britain’s
foreign policy? In what way could this have an impact on future
military engagements in Muslim countries?
TG: It doesn’t just have an impact on the Islamic
community. Many people in this country are unhappy. Look, for
example, at what we’ve done to Iraq: an illegal war, no we’ve had
another bomb attack today, 50 people killed over a hundred people
injured. We’ve made a mess and a wreck of these places. The
Arab’s League prediction that we were going to open gates of hell
in Iraq has come true. Actually Britain and Tony Blair, as well
as George Bush too, are responsible for this. So it’s not just
the Muslim population here that are angry.
The other thing is we’ve got other extremists here in Britain,
anti-Islamic extremists. Two weeks ago a man coming from Mosque
in Birmingham was murdered and this got almost no coverage
whatsoever. We need to make sure that the security services are
taking exactly the same sort of measures against the anti-Muslims
as they are against the Islamic organizations. What they are
trying to do is to demonize Muslims in a similar way the Nazis
demonized Jews back in 1930s and it’s ridiculous. We’ve got to
stop it. We don’t want that from MI5, thank you very much.
The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.
The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.