‘Ukraine is just a stepping stone in Europe’s global game’

Protests in Ukraine would not have reached such violence if the forces behind the unrest were not backed by powerful sponsors, Christophe Hoerstal, a consultant to Germany's government, told RT. But is proclaimed democracy in Ukraine really the main goal?

RT:Disturbing developments are taking place in Kiev. Eighteen people have reportedly been killed. What do you make of the situation there? Is it out of control?

Christophe Hoerstal: Not yet. It takes time. But I’m very serious here. This marks a turning point. We had two of these so-called opposition leaders, [Vitaly] Klichko and [Arseniy] Yatsenyuk, yesterday talking to Merkel and she refused sanctions.

What I see is interfering powers in Ukraine, led by Washington. And at the helm of the European action is Germany. They are interfering now in such a way that sanctions become tangible. They are around the corner and armed violence is around the corner.

It’s very close to a civil war steered from the outside and it reminds me of Syria where the US is threatening a no-fly zone...humanitarian concerns will be quoted by the US and Germany to interfere further.

RT:So that explains the timing of this meeting in Germany and this sudden surge of violence after a relative period of calm?

CH: Yes, that’s all planned. I think that this is a planned scheme that Merkel is on Monday refusing sanctions and then this kind of violence in Ukraine starts to erupt, and that means they are making Ukraine reach a stage where sanctions can come in.

RT:Would Germany and other European interests want to see this sort of violence? Obviously they’re supporting the protesters, but are they really supporting those behind this disturbing violence we’re seeing today?

CH: I can tell you from my political experience of a long time that violent protesters would not dare to do this kind of thing if there was not some backing from abroad, very clearly.

RT:But are the moderates in some ways being hijacked by the nationalists and extremists in all of this?

CH: Yeah, that’s happening right now. Look at the face of Mr. Klitchko in the Spiegel weekly newspaper and on the website of Der Spiegel yesterday evening; he looked deeply unhappy and troubled, and Yatsenyuk was looking weary. So this is very clear, they know this game is going against Ukraine, and they are a part of it. And that’s very bad.

RT:So who replaces Yanukovich if that should happen? Nationalists? Extremists? Is that really what Germany wants to see?

CH: I think they will have their ways to replace the government and have a regime change in the way they want it, and they will put an obedient person on top if they can, but I hope it doesn’t come to that because peace in Europe is wearing thin with this kind of action in Ukraine. Very clearly they mean Russia. They are not meaning Ukraine. Ukraine is just a stepping stone. They want Russia. They want the whole cake.

RT:What about the domestic situation there? Would an early election dissolve or solve any of the violence at the moment? After all, that's what the protesters want. But Yanukovich was democratically elected and elections are expected to take place early next year.

CH: As I said in another interview a few days ago, I wouldn’t advise the Ukrainian government to go for early elections, because what would Western countries, the German secret services, the CIA, and the US do with this kind of election? They would try to create a situation with all of their billions of dollars in Ukraine, which is helpful for that kind of regime change. I wouldn’t advise the Ukrainian government – the elected, rightful, legal government – to help Western countries in their interference.

RT:You have talked about the ambitions of Western countries' interference. What about Russia’s position now? What do you make of its reaction to the events so far and how it’s been playing this?

CH: The Russians have done a very good game right now, of being very careful with their reactions, not trying to blackmail the Ukrainian government. They are paying out two billion dollars, no matter what...and that was a very good idea to do that. Also a very clever idea to announce that on Monday afternoon – a few hours before the Merkel government could come up with 600 million euro from the European Union, which is comparably peanuts.

So we have a situation where Russia is prudent, but one thing is very clear – and this is a most important issue. The Ukrainian government has to address the rightful wishes of the people of Ukraine. That has nothing to do with this kind of bloody interference and unless we see very intelligent and wise steps by the government to address these woes, unless we have that, we cannot have a solution for the Ukrainian situation no matter what.